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Old 08-26-2015, 05:20 PM   #15
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Wow, 24 gallons? I would ALL kinds of pissed off if I bought a coach and only had 68% (24 gallons actual / 35 advertised) of the advertised capacity in the grey tank.Our Grey tank is our limiting factor in dry camping, not the black tank. And when you only start off with 35 gallons advertised to begin with, ANY decrease from that is note worthy.

If they have a problem with you being concerned about only having 68% of their advertised capacity, tell them that you feel that you should have paid only 68% of the agreed on purchase price and that you would like a refund of the 32% of the purchase price that you "overpaid"! Seriously, it sounds crazy, but maybe if you put in those words, they may do something.

Baring that, and this sounds kind of extreme, but frankly, if they cannot put a larger tank in it to bring it up to advertised specs, I would demand that they buy the RV back because they substantially misrepresented the unit. 24 gallons is just NOT enough, maybe for a pop-up, but that's not what you purchased, and not what you PAID for. 32% discrepancy goes WAY beyond "tolerances" and I think any judge or jury would reasonably agree with you.

Bounce if off of the State Attorney General. See if he or she feels that a 32% discrepancy is acceptable.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:48 AM   #16
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We did have a similar problem on ours but it was with the fresh water tank. I think a previous poster was right, the tank may be 35 gallons but depending on the way it is plumbed you might not get full holding capacity. On our fresh water tank the overflow valve was plumbed in about 4 inches from the top of the tank. this meant that I was only capable of holding about 75 maybe 85 gallons of fresh water instead of the 100 it was rated. Fleetwood installed a different valve and now i can fill it all the way up. depending where your shower drain or other plumbing comes into the side of your grey tank, you might have the same thing happening.
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:06 AM   #17
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Not standing up for the company or pointing fingers at you but something I have noticed when filling my fuel tank may have the same effect on your tanks. First can you see if the tank is mounted level with the rv itself? When you dump before fill testing is it possible the unit is leaning enough that not everything is out of the tank. Can you see where the shower drain enters the tank? If the tank slopes toward the shower drain it will back up before the tank is really full. Another thought would be that the shower drain actually extends down into the tank so that it overflows before the tank is totally full. You should be able to see that when you use the camera.

I know that my motorhome can be off level not even enough for me to actually see it and it will affect my being able to fill my fuel by as much as 10%.

It would be interesting to find someone with the exact same model since tank locations can vary and, have them run a comparison test.
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Old 08-28-2015, 11:40 AM   #18
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It sounds like Fleetwood is counting the 10 or 11 gallons that the shower will hold until it overflows into the hallway as part of the "Grey Tank". Somehow, I don't think the State AG would buy into that "interpretation".

The issue is very simple really. Empty the tank, add water in 1 gallon containers until the water backs up into the shower. THAT is the demonstrable, proven grey water tank capacity. If they advertise more, than they misrepresented the coach in their advertising.

That is what I would take to the State Attorney. Keep emotion out of it. You made a financial decision based on advertising that turned out, for whatever reason, to be false.

You request and require that the manufacturer correct it, or purchase the coach back.
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Old 08-28-2015, 05:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod View Post
It sounds like Fleetwood is counting the 10 or 11 gallons that the shower will hold until it overflows into the hallway as part of the "Grey Tank". Somehow, I don't think the State AG would buy into that "interpretation".

The issue is very simple really. Empty the tank, add water in 1 gallon containers until the water backs up into the shower. THAT is the demonstrable, proven grey water tank capacity. If they advertise more, than they misrepresented the coach in their advertising.

That is what I would take to the State Attorney. Keep emotion out of it. You made a financial decision based on advertising that turned out, for whatever reason, to be false.

You request and require that the manufacturer correct it, or purchase the coach back.
From the brochure on our Fleetwood:

IMPORTANT—PLEASE READ:
Product information, photography and illustrations included in this publication were as accurate as possible at the time of printing. For further product information and changes, please visit our website at Fleetwood RV. or contact your local Fleetwood RV dealer.

Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice. All weights, fuel, liquid capacities and dimensions are approximate.

I doubt a legal challenge would be worth the time.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:37 AM   #20
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We have two 50 Gallon holding tanks. When we are campinging without a sewer connection we have to be very careful with water use. We can go a long weekend on the grey without issue. The black tank will last for two weeks. Some other people we know with the same set up go for two weeks on the same tanks. They use the campground facilities for the most part. You really can't buy a rig with short legs and expect it to perform like a house. Some coaches have 85 gallon grey tanks but you still can not use them like your house.

I would suggest that you talk to other campers about how they extend the use of their tanks and then enjoy what your have or pony for the Winny Tour.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:40 AM   #21
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Really? Attorney general? Without a mention of trying to solve the problem. Let's sue them! Poor attitude.
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Old 08-29-2015, 06:43 AM   #22
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When I asked Fleetwood to correct the problem with my tank so it would hold more, they did it no questions asked. I wonder if I threatened to contact the ag would have met with the same results
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:32 AM   #23
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From the brochure on our Fleetwood:

IMPORTANT—PLEASE READ:
Product information, photography and illustrations included in this publication were as accurate as possible at the time of printing. For further product information and changes, please visit our website at Fleetwood RV. or contact your local Fleetwood RV dealer.

Prices, materials, design and specifications are subject to change without notice. All weights, fuel, liquid capacities and dimensions are approximate.

I doubt a legal challenge would be worth the time.
Actually, now that they have been officially notified of the problem with the size of holding tanks, and if they have not changed the sizes on the website (instant changes possible, unlike the printed brochures) I think a legal challenge would be successful, not that I am saying sue them as people seem the be reading into my posts. I am saying explore the legal options if negotiations haven't been successful. Back to the factory to correct the problem with unsuccessful results, months lost for the customer to use his RV, seems to me that the OP has been pretty patient so far and not gotten any successful results. Maybe time to dial up the rhetoric.
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:38 AM   #24
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Really? Attorney general? Without a mention of trying to solve the problem. Let's sue them! Poor attitude.
Perhaps you can point out in my post where I said SUE THEM? I seem to be missing where I said that. The OP has had the coach back to the dealer/manufacturer, the problem hasn't been corrected, and according to the OP, the manufacturer has fallen back on the statement that since they use calibrated flow meters, they are right and the OP is wrong. It really doesn't sound like the OP has gotten resolution by being More than patient and understanding . . . . Mojoracing, have I missed something? Also, if you know anything about how the Attorney General's office works, you would know that they don't generally get involved in direct litigation on the complaintents behalf unless the case is particularly egrerious or involves a lot of complaints. It just raised it to higher level than the OP has been able to do so far. Is you recommendation that the OP just roll over and accept a brand new RV that doesn't suit his needs? Would YOU do that if YOU had purchased the RV?
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:54 AM   #25
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When I asked Fleetwood to correct the problem with my tank so it would hold more, they did it no questions asked. I wonder if I threatened to contact the ag would have met with the same results

Mojoracing, You were successful when you contacted Fleetwood to correct YOUR tank capacity problem, and they corrected it! Good for you, and good for Fleetwood, that is what they should have done!

The OP did just as you did, and didn't receive the level of care that you did. They returned the coach to him with the problem uncorrected, and stated that they were right, and the OP was wrong because Fleetwood uses a Flow Meter, or some such, and the coach if just fine. I'm curious, would you have stopped there?

Also, since when does a customer's requesting assistance from the AG in a problem that has not reach resolution constitute a "threat"? If the customer has a legitimate issue with his purchase (which it appears that you think he does, as you had issue with a similar situation with YOUR Fleetwood), he patiently works with his dealer, and the manufacturer, and they don't correct the problem (as they apparently did in YOUR case), then he can tell Fleetwood, thanks so much for not correcting a problem of your making, I'll just take my 24 gallon holding tank and be pleased that I don't have a 10 gallon holding tank!

Or he can raise the issue to another level. I am attempting to give the OP a recommendation on his options. I think of myself as a relatively informed consumer. Others are not, and having exhausted the alternatives they personally know about, they ask for assistance on this site. I recommended an alternative. Apparently I should have told him to suck it up?

The OP has in my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions) been extremely patient with his dealer and with Fleetwood. Had he received the resolution that YOU received, he would not have asked for assistance on this site. He didn't receive the resolution that YOU did, therefore he asked for assistance. I offered assistance. Have you?

Another side note. How long ago did you get resolution on your tank size? I would submit that as of the date that Fleetwood corrected your issue, that they KNEW that there was an issue with ACTUAL tank size vrs ADVERTISED tank size. They apparently haven't corrected their advertising since . . . . Does that constitute being forthcoming and accurate in their representation of their product? I don't think so.

The bottom line is that the OP would like to be happy with his purchase, happy with the product he owns, and would like to own what he paid for. Whatever avenue he takes from here, I hope he is as successful as you were in getting his situation resolved. I hope we hear an update from him telling the forum that all is good, and Fleetwood corrected the problem!
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:21 AM   #26
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There has been a spate of "Holding tanks are not as advertised" posts lateley, Different makes and models too as I recall (Though I'm nto sure there) Might be an opening here for making an impact on the manufacturer's policies.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:52 AM   #27
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My problem was the fresh water tank, not the grey and black. My problem was being experienced by several other members. Here is a link to just one of the posts about ithttp://www.irv2.com/forums/f107/fresh-water-tank-overflow-is-low-249969.html

Some of the folks involved actually worked with fleetwood to develop a fix. I took my coach down to them, mentioned the fix that a fellow member had come up with in conjunction with fleetwood and they fixed it. I was actually 10 to 15 gallons short due to the placement of the overflow. I suspect the same is true with the op's grey tank. The fix used for the fresh tank cannot work for the grey. I would assume do the the size of the pipe coming from the shower and other drains (probably in inch or more), the closest they can mount them to the top of the tank is somewhere in the top two inches of the tank. Yes, this means it will back up into the shower and probably cut down on capacity. The op stated he know has a black tank that fills properly and a grey tank that holds 30 gallons, 5 gallons short of the stated amount. That is as good as you are probably going to get. The fact remains that fleetwood installed a 35 gallon tank. To answer your other question, no you didn't specifically say sue them. Contacting the ag however accomplishes the same. Thats what they do. Trust me I know. To escalate to that level is not the way to go. Yes he brought it to the factory and it was there from what I can tell about a month. They repaired the black tank and the grey is now up to 30 gallons. Id say thats a good resolution. Perhaps working with other members here, taking pictures, working on solutions with fleetwood would bear more fruit. When you get government offices involved as well as attorneys, all you do in the end is drive up the cost of our future RV's. Fleetwoods statement more than covers them from legal attack. Another call to fleetwood asking to take another look at it, maybe watch them use their flow meter and maybe having another one of their techs look at it might get the op a couple more gallon capacity. These are new coaches. It takes some time to work out the bugs. If the op wouldn't mind, maybe we could see an actual time line as to when the coach went to fleetwood and when it was ready to be picked up. I know I had an exhaustive list and fleetwood handled it all in one day while I waited, including the tank. By the way, if you look behind your water panel in the wet bay, you should be able to see at least part of the tank and perhaps see where the drains come into it. This might give you an idea as to how to procure a fix. Help and answers folks, thats what its all about. There are other sights that specialize in legal help.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:30 AM   #28
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From OP's post # 12: "Grey tank has still same problem, except this time with water in shower indicator does not read full...stays at 3/4. Another contact to Fleetwood and their response was that they used a 'flowmeter' to fill the tank and it did read full at 30 gallons. Still not 35 like the brochure states but not even close to 24 that my gallon jug process showed"

Fleetwood stated that the capacity was up to 30 gallons, NOT the OP. The OP STILL states that the capacity, as measured using 1 gallon jugs is STILL only 24 gallons. That's unless I am missing something.

Also, on two separate occasions, after going round in circles, including BBB complaints, for several months and getting no resolution from companies I had a problem with, I contacted the State AG, explained the problem. They stated that it appeared that I had a legitimate complaint IF WHAT I HAD TOLD THEM WAS ACCURATE, but that they would contact the other party and ask them for THEIR side of the story. I tend to be a bit anal about documenting stuff, so in both cases, my information/timeline, etc was pretty exact.

In BOTH cases, the other parties involved corrected all the problems I had had. No suits were filed, I paid for no attorneys, etc. All it took was a letter from the State AG, stating that they had heard my side of the story and requested to hear the other parties side. The other parties were in the wrong on both occasions, but until I escalated the issue, and got the AG involved, they basically told me to pack sand.

I still feel that if the capacity of the OP's grey water tank is demonstrably only 24 gallons instead of the advertised 35 gallons, he has reduced usage of his RV and should continue to pursue efforts to get the problem corrected. If he cannot get the dealer or manufacturer to correct the issue, I still feel the AG is a viable option.

Hope he gets things corrected soon!
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