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Old 06-02-2016, 08:38 PM   #1
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Thinking of buying 2008 Discovery

Test driving this coach over a small pass we noticed the temp gauge rising up to about 3/4. Soon as we leveled off it came back to normal. I paid Freightliner to do an inspection on it and it came up with 3 inactive codes related to coolant temp, "coolant temp valid but out of normal operating range". When I talked to Freightliner mechanic he said that it could possibly be a dirty radiator or a fan problem. They said to buy it with a warranty so as to have no worries. They said if the radiator is dirty on the outside then the cost to clean it is about $3,000/20 hrs. The fan could be around $2,100. They're suggestion was to drive it and see what happens but by that time you've already bought it. Even with the warranty, I don't think they'd even cover cleaning the outside of the radiator and/or flush. This is a consignment coach. Salesman tells me he talked to the owner but he (owner) apparently can give me no written records of service. So I have no history of any maintenance records on this 50K mile coach other than what salesman is telling me. It's an exceptionally clean coach but no records. Any ideas on all of this?
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Old 06-03-2016, 06:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhildebrand View Post
Test driving this coach over a small pass we noticed the temp gauge rising up to about 3/4. Soon as we leveled off it came back to normal. I paid Freightliner to do an inspection on it and it came up with 3 inactive codes related to coolant temp, "coolant temp valid but out of normal operating range". When I talked to Freightliner mechanic he said that it could possibly be a dirty radiator or a fan problem. They said to buy it with a warranty so as to have no worries. They said if the radiator is dirty on the outside then the cost to clean it is about $3,000/20 hrs. The fan could be around $2,100. They're suggestion was to drive it and see what happens but by that time you've already bought it. Even with the warranty, I don't think they'd even cover cleaning the outside of the radiator and/or flush. This is a consignment coach. Salesman tells me he talked to the owner but he (owner) apparently can give me no written records of service. So I have no history of any maintenance records on this 50K mile coach other than what salesman is telling me. It's an exceptionally clean coach but no records. Any ideas on all of this?
Can you provide a bit more information. What engine, what was the ambient temp, did you also read the engine temp on the digital display? Did you check the trans temp? How steep and long was the grade? I assume since you said you were on a "test drive" you were not pulling anything. Lets get some of the basic stuff understood before we proceed.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:32 AM   #3
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Just as a matter of comparison, my Discovery's engine is the Caterpillar C7 330 HP engine, 51,000 miles and the rear mounted radiators. On steep grades the engine does not show any increase in temperature. Even crossing the Rockies she ran perfectly.

The problem with your coach could be the radiator or the charged air cooler radiator. They are back to back and dirt gets clogged in between them. Cleaning them is a problem. If they are only slightly externally clogged sometimes washing them with a degreaser and water will work. But a badly clogged system usually means radiator removal and cleaning.

There could be other reasons for overheating. None of them good and all of them expensive.

My suggestion would be to get the owner to fix the problem first before you buy it.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:45 AM   #4
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Just a quick word...... walk

Even though the 08 discovery is a great unit and a great floorplan... buying one with known gremlins is like opening your wallet to a vacuum cleaner....

ask me how I know...

Me personally, knowing what I know now, wouldn't hesitate to walk away, and keep looking.

See the problem can start with the head scratching.. well maybe it's this, maybe it's that, drive it and see... hand me $3000... didn't fix it? hand me another 2000. Didnn't fix it? hand me....

and then, when the hands start messing around in there, they find other things, break things, don't always put things back right and it can get out of control quickly.
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Old 06-03-2016, 08:09 AM   #5
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The 2008 has The CUMMINS® ISB 350HP ENGINE and 760 foot pounds of torque.

When climbing long hills with a ISB it is best to manual downshift to keep RPM around 2,100-2,300 and to keep the transmission from hunting between gears.
Those RPM should keep the temps happy.

Here is a 3.3MB PDF brochure of the 2008

Also if not manual downshifting take the transmission out of the Mode setting.

Easy to see and easy to do if the CAC needs cleaned. From the engine top side use a bright flashlight to see if it is dirty. If so spray with a engine cleaner, let sit for a while and then flush with a water hose.

Any place that wants 3K to clean the CAC & Radiator I would not want them to do any kind of work on my RV. If the engine 8 year old thermostat hasn't been replaced. May be another reason of heat increase.

I replaced mine after 15 years and 8 months. and it ran cooler after.

If you buy the D. Check out Discovery Owners web site that has a lot of support with questions.
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:46 AM   #6
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Discovery overtemp codes stored in the ECU

First off the engine is the ISB Cummins rear radiator. The forum users have clarified that. I have no idea what the actual temperature was and what the trans. temperature was. The test drive was totally empty not towing anything. I was looking at the dash gauge - it did not overheat but climbed up to the 3/4 mark. The climb was not that long ,temps outside around 70', small pass 2000' +-. The codes were older codes Freightliner picked up. The cost of cleaning the radiator is 20hrs + materials. I believe they pull the radiator. Freightliner has an outstanding reputation here but pricy. They threw out a few possible causes, plugged radiator -flush, dirty radiator - clean, and fan issues. I see you have mentioned thermostat. Being that it was that code, FL would have visually checked the radiator (?). The dealership thinks this is not an issue and this is why I have posted it. Hard to know how this coach responds but combining the rise in temp and the 3 codes recorded I thought it was worth asking you folks. Great responses. Someone suggested, maybe a low coolant (?) The 3 codes that have been stored seem to cover a lot of area and I have no history.
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Old 06-03-2016, 06:52 PM   #7
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What does the MODE switch do on the transmission display?
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:29 AM   #8
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It changes shift points to save fuel.

FYI: My analog gauge will indicate close to the 3/4 point while the digital readout indicates 210 degrees on hills.
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:33 AM   #9
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It would be nice to know the model of the D as well--there were 6 models in '08. There have been a variety of engines over the years, including at least 4-5 Cummins and 2 CAT. In 2008 it was a 350 ISB 6.7L, a good powerful workhorse. On our '08, access to the top and front of the engine is made by removing sections of the bedroom floor (partly under the bed as well), which is necessary for good access to the CAC and radiator for cleaning (yes, some folks claim to be able to do it entirely beneath the rig, but they really need to wear a hazmat suit to do it!).

We bought our coach with no records and 26K miles; I was not happy about that, but we loved the 40X floor plan. We are extremely pleased with it after 3 years (and adding 39K miles to the odometer), despite many major/minor expenses, some covered by insurance and others not. We full-time, so being without the rig is unacceptable!

You also don't indicate your level of experience driving a diesel pusher (BTW, all Ds are DPs). If you are like me who had NO experience with diesels or motorhomes, you may not have driven the hills properly. When I first experienced a 7% grade (modestly steep) for about 1 mile (I was in CO), the rig slowed from 55 to 30 mph and the temp shot up to the point it alarmed (a loud buzzer). I soon learned that I should watch the RPMs, not the speedometer, and manually down-shift to target 2200-2300. That keeps adequate air flow thru the radiator and the engine cool. It also means on some 11-12% grades we travel at only 25mph, if they are long (I found one such in Maine, of all places!).

There are important questions to which you will probably get merely a blank look...but perhaps not:

Is the previous owner the only PO? If not, he may have no previous records, BUT he should have at least have some records of his own (only an idiot trashes all receipts!), so he should be able to provide at least them. Even normal servicing like oil changes are significant in my mind--it tells you how they treated the rig.

Where is the rig? If it is in a part of the country where dirt and gravel roads are common, then indeed the CAC and perhaps the radiator could have been plugged. But, for most coaches, it is unusual for them to get plugged without being in especially dirty conditions (I have a friend with a 3/4 mile dirt driveway on his ranch--his DOES get dirty!). The occasional short dusty ride doesn't count.

Does the salesman have any clue how and where the rig was used? If the PO was an avid dry camper in dusty conditions, then again a plugged CAC could be an issue. If he recently took a trip to Alaska, that too is rather dusty (from reports I've heard--hope to go next year!). Frankly, I strongly suspect the temperature issue is probably a reflection of using too high a gear/too low RPM.

A couple more thoughts. Get an NADA report ($15-20?) using the VIN #. You can also check with both Freightliner using the VIN and with Fleetwood (better if you have the FIN# but the VIN will work too) for service histories (if the salesman is cooperative, he can help you with that). I would make a low-ball offer without service records (say $20K+ less than asking price if it is reasonable) and tell them you will give $10K more with records, if nothing outrageous turns up.

Finally (yeah, I tend to write too much!), Freightliner franchises are always expensive and some are better than others when it comes to quality work. They charge according to the "book" hours--I had a turbo issue that took a total of 3 hours to remove, replace and test. The book said 6 hours plus an hour for diagnostics (took 15 minutes) and that is what I was charged. There are also two different rates for trucks ($120/hr) and for RVs ($150)--that was in Corpus Christi and it may be different elsewhere--I negotiated using the truck rate. On the other hand, I will trust a Freightliner franchise before nearly any dealer--one exception being PPL in Houston, about which I've heard only good reports. The BEST and most reasonable-cost service on the chassis is at Freightliner Gaffney!

Again, I have no idea about your level of experience, so I'll leave you with the reminders that
1) all coaches that are used will have issues needing to be resolved,
2) you are putting a house on wheels, so "stuff" happening with the house is inevitable,
3) just like any vehicle, good regular maintenance is critically important,
4) few things/repairs on a coach are cheap,
5) find yourself a good mobile tech to take care of the house repairs and possibly the relatively-easy chassis stuff like oil/filters (not just less expensive, but also MUCH more convenient!).
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Old 06-04-2016, 08:52 AM   #10
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if the engine had an actual over temp then you should pass it by. If the ISB is noted for elevated temperature while climbing the hills (not over temp) then go for it.

I do not notice my cat engine doing abnormal things while pulling a grade. That is supposed to be a diesel engine's bread and butter.
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:30 AM   #11
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Codes & Warrantees

BTW, the codes reported by Freightliner can relate to many things--I've had the same codes. You can get more detailed info about those precise codes if you call Cummins. And even then, they will be able to tell you various things to check, but they may be incorrect (I've had both).

I would not buy any rig without an extended warrantee, but you are correct that it will not cover cleaning a CAC, nor diagnosis or anything that can be called an "adjustment" or "service". It is very important that you have anyone servicing the unit tell the warrantee adjuster that "X is broken" and must be repaired/replaced. They need to speak the language to get it covered, and it usually needs to be approved before the repair. Also, be aware they will rarely will pay a trip charge.

If it is a big repair, the insurance company will demand a history of servicing--if you don't have receipts, they may try to wiggle out of it by saying you have not done proper regular maintenance. That happened to me, but I was able to provide a spread sheet showing everything done since I purchased the rig, plus receipts for everything. They paid.

With an 8-year old coach I would expect to pay about $2000/year (our then-5-year-old ran about $1500/year with a $200 deductible). The dealer may be able to sell you an XtraRide warrantee (technically, an extended service contract), which I have found to be very good--if offered, go for the 5-yar contract (if you sell, the prorated portion will be refunded to you). The beauty of this arrangement is the cost of the warrantee is included in the financing.

Although some like them, I've heard the most horror stories about Good Sam contracts. Another I've heard some good reports on is Wholesale Warrantees. Do shop around, whatever else you do!
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
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if the engine had an actual over temp then you should pass it by. If the ISB is noted for elevated temperature while climbing the hills (not over temp) then go for it.

I do not notice my cat engine doing abnormal things while pulling a grade. That is supposed to be a diesel engine's bread and butter.
I've never heard of an ISB being noted for over temp. I have a Banks IQ monitor on my dash, so I do have a digital readout. Even when climbing the 11% grade I mentioned in Maine, it remained in the proper 192-196⁰ range. Now the exhaust temp, of course, could get up to 1300-1400⁰, higher than the normal 900-1100, but the engine was running at 2300 RPM. So that should be expected.

I agree; don't buy any rig that runs over temp! I would also agree with plasma800 (who has more experience than most of us!) to not buy any rig with "known gremlins". But I don't think that is the case here.
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:08 AM   #13
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The model is the R, Cummins with just turning 50k. I have no experience driving this coach, my truck has a pyro so you can shift by watching that. I was told that the computer would take care of this- RPM, shifting ...
On my test drive the temp rose to the 3/4 mark, it did not alarm. The gauge was not in the red mark but rose. I took it to Freightliner for a buyers inspection and it showed 3 alarms, brakes 50% everything else checked out fine. the codes that showed up were all Engine coolant temp, all being above Normal operating levels. 1 was most severe-red, 1 condition exists-Amber, and least severe level-no light. The dealer will not/ cannot supply any records. The coach is a 1 owner coach that was driven from CA to WA. It is extremely clean, under over and within. I was told it was also garaged, It does need 4 back tires which are original. they will do a thorough PDI guarantee that everything will work, pressure test, ck electrical... and make it right.

What kind of info. does Nada show? We did a Carfax RV facts - nothing unusual - 1 owner. Thanks everyone for all your responses. All this helps.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:05 PM   #14
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NADA will show any reported accidents, I believe (if I'm mistaken, someone please correct me!). I was told to do that before I purchased my rig.

The computer will take care of shifting in all situations EXCEPT going up or down serious inclines (always use the same gear going down as you did going up). With practice, you will maintain a good speed on both. Remember also that no rig (or truck) that starts an upward incline going slow will ever accelerate to a high speed--that's why truckers hate idiots that force them to slow down at the bottom of a hill!

The '08 39R floor plan is the only other one we've seen that we think we might like (would prefer a real door for the commode); it's a great floor plan and more spacious than most.

If you are convinced there is nothing being hidden (no service history) and the price is right, I'd say go for it. And with the support you have here on iRV2 and even better on the DOAI eGroup, you can handle any issues that arise. I'd still suggest make a low-ball offer specifically tagged as owing to a lack of receipts...you can always go up from there. And it might shake loose some good info. Wish I'd done that.

It sounds like you have done most if not all the necessary homework to go forward.
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