Tripping 20Amp GFI?

[rdalcanto]

I brought my new-to-me 2010 AC revolution to storage today. Tried plugging into the 20Amp GFI outlet, and it would quickly trip it. I have the Magnum display setup for only 5Amp on the shore power. All I'm trying to do is run the fridge. I made sure the engine pre-heat is off, and even pulled that plug out of the outlet in the closet. Any other ideas? Bad transfer switch drawing current?!? Inverter is off. Even tried turning off the charger. I tried the GFI outlet in the unit next to mine, and that one tripped to, so it isn't the outlet. Thoughts?

[wa8yxm]

On many coaches the inverter if it has one or converter does not play nice with GFCI.

You will need, A stright 15 amp cord with two outlets (or a twin outlet adapter or a cube trap) a Battery Minder or Battery Tender (both trade marks) and a coin or other item shaped something like a coin, the HOOD key handle works well, so do many other key handles.

Remove the outside fridge cover,, You should see a plug and outlet,

Transfer the plug to the extension cord

Hook the Battery Minder/tender up to the house batteries.

Unless the fridge IS the problem. That should work.

[AFChap]

My coach sometimes does that when I plug into a 20a GFI outlet ...most of the time if I will then re-set the GFI AFTER I am plugged in, it works with no problem.

[rdalcanto]

Great suggestions guys! I went back to storage. There is no door on the sidewall to access the plug for the fridge. Maybe there is one on the undersurface of the slide? (I didn't open the slide). I ended up turning off every circuit breaker accept Charger#2 and the 50Amp Main. My doing that, I was able to keep the GFI from tripping. Accoring to my monitor, by the time I left, the batteries were absorption charging and I was doing that and running the fridge on just 5 Amps. I should be o.k. now. We'll see....

[Gary RVRoamer]

The fridge outlet is in the fridge compartment. Open the outside access panel for the fridge and you should see it on the side, usually toward the front of the coach.

Tripping a GFCI has nothing to do with how much current draw you are using, so the 5A power load is irrelevant. You have current leaking to the ground somewhere (rather than thru the neutral as it should) and the GFCI has detected that.

Sometimes the heater element in the fridge causes this problem - that is what wa8yxm is showing you how to circumvent. Sometimes it is the inverter/charger itself if it has a ground wire bonded to a neutral (should not be in an rv). By turning off breakers, you have removed power from whatever circuit was causing the problem, but you haven't eliminated the safety issue, which is a leaking electrical current. You could get a nasty shock sometime of that continues.

[rdalcanto]

Interesting. I'm using the 50 Amp - 30Amp converter plug, and then a 30-15 Amp converter plug. Could that be causing the ground problem? My power control panel does tell me there is a ground error. I blamed that on the 50-30-15 adapters. I don't remember a ground error on the screen when I was plugged into 50 amp last week. I will check in two weeks when we go camping again.

The fridge is on the side of the coach with the full wall slide. There is no access panel on that side, unless it is in the floor of the slide, which I can't check in storage (not enough space to open slide).
How else can I get to the fridge plug?

Thanks guys! Great comments!

[RonK]

Had the same problem with our 2011 Rev, replaced the GFI outlet, did the same. Replaced that with a regular outlet, no problems since.

[RJay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonK Had the same problem with our 2011 Rev, replaced the GFI outlet, did the same. Replaced that with a regular outlet, no problems since.

You didn't eliminate the problem you eliminated the symptom.

[RonK]

RJay:
While I agree with your assessment what I would like to know is why the GFI keeps tripping when I can eliminate the GFI and replace it with a regular outlet and test the legs of the power coming into the MH and all is fine. No “open grounds”, “open neutral”, “open hot”, “hot/gnd reverse”, “hot/neu reverse anywhere from the power at the outlet to the outlets in the MH itself. I think the same holds true for why I can’t take a small Honda generator using the 110 outlets and get the coach to recognize power. What is so different about the 2009 Providence, our current 2011 Revolution and the Winni Suncrusier which didn’t trip the GFI and recognized our generator. The Suncrusier was also 50 amp service. I have talked to many vendors at the shows who were selling the Honda generators and no one could tell me why the 50 amp service would not recognize the power coming from the 110 outlets of the generator.
If anyone has any input on this I’d sure like to hear an explanation.....

[vermilye]

As to the GFCI tripping - it only takes a small leak of 5ma to trip a GFCI. The various "open, reversed, etc" tests won't show this as a problem. If a working GFCI trips, you do have a leak over 5ma, and should try to find it. It can be from the hot side of your wiring, in which case shutting off a breaker will help determine which circuit or device is causing the problem. It can also be from the neutral side, which is much more difficult to find because the GFCI will trip with all the breakers off. I have a rather long description of how to find GFCI problems in this thread: Electrical help

As to the generator - One possible reason - the Honda, like most 120v inverter generators does not connect the neutral to the frame or ground (called bonding). This is not necessary (or required by OSHA or the NEC) for a 120v generator rated at less than 5000 watts.

The problem is some RV protection systems look for the ground/neutral bond (that takes place in the campground or household service entrance) as a way of determining that there is a ground. When it doesn't find it, it assumes there is an open ground & shuts down. The generator ground is tied to the frame, providing a safe way of tripping the generator's breaker if a fault occurs between the generator windings & frame, but there is no bonding between the neutral & frame.

One solution some have used is to make an adapter that connects the neutral to ground & place it between the generator & the RV. Although it makes no difference to the generator (technically there is no neutral in a Honda inverter generator) to keep your appliances happy, the wide blade of the 15-20 amp receptacle should be the one bonded to ground. One additional point. Although many individuals have tied the neutral to ground on Honda inverter generators, making this bond with some inverters can damage them. Do so at your own risk!

[RJay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonK RJay: While I agree with your assessment what I would like to know is why the GFI keeps tripping when I can eliminate the GFI and replace it with a regular outlet and test the legs of the power coming into the MH and all is fine. No “open grounds”, “open neutral”, “open hot”, “hot/gnd reverse”, “hot/neu reverse anywhere from the power at the outlet to the outlets in the MH itself. I think the same holds true for why I can’t take a small Honda generator using the 110 outlets and get the coach to recognize power. What is so different about the 2009 Providence, our current 2011 Revolution and the Winni Suncrusier which didn’t trip the GFI and recognized our generator. The Suncrusier was also 50 amp service. I have talked to many vendors at the shows who were selling the Honda generators and no one could tell me why the 50 amp service would not recognize the power coming from the 110 outlets of the generator. If anyone has any input on this I’d sure like to hear an explanation.....

Hi Ron,
The GFI works by comparing the current on the live leg to the return current on the neutral, they should be equal and as long as they are the GFI will work correctly. When a short circuit exists the current will be different because the current is diverted to ground, either by someone touching a live wire or a faulty piece of equipment or appliance. Regular receptacles don't compare the live and neutral currents or have a means of tripping and therefore provide no protection against electrical shock.


What I would suggest is to replace the GFI and unplug everything downstream of it. If it doesn't trip you can be sure the downstream wiring is good. Next, plug each item back in so there is only one item plugged in at a time until you plug in the item that causes the GFI to trip, and you've found the problem.

Be sure you connect your new GFI correctly.

[RonK]

RJay & Jon

Thanks for the feedback...

Ron K.