96 Gulf Stream Sea Breeze Main Fuse Panel Issue

[mrhockey]

Guys under the "hood" of my motorhome is a fuse panel that has a switch on the front and it controls the power on/off to the coach and generator starter power. I was trying to fire up the generator today and had it cranking over for a while off and on trying to prime it and stuff. I think I am low on fuel in the gas tank for the coach, 1/4 tank, and I think the generator isn't picking up because of a low fuel shutoff on it. But anyway after cranking I walked by the front and smelled something electrically hot or burning. I pulled the cover off the panel and the two wires to the switch were melted and touching.
The wires go to the big ends of the solenoid on the right hand side and jumper the power from the hot end to the other side. I replaced the wires and tried firing up the generator again and stopped and felt the wires and they were hot again.
1- Now why is the power to start the generator running through this switch and melting the wires?
2- What does this switch do and how does it work? What is that solenoid for? I figured that switch would activate the relay inside the solenoid but then I guess the power would be on constantly and kill the solenoid eventually.
3- Is this switch a factory installed item?
4- Why when the coach is running do I hear this solenoid open and close every couple of seconds? Is it allowing something to charge briefly and then opening? It seems to stop after a little bit.
Here are some pictures below.

[mrhockey]

EDIT: It's actually a SUN VOYAGER model not a Sea Breeze like the title says. I thought that sounded funny when I posted it. I had a frost bitten brain lock.

[RV Wizard]

The cables getting hot is a result of current and any loose or bad connections will add to the heat. If the cable lug connectors are clean and tight, the points in the solenoid could be pitted enough as to add to the connection problem and the current of the generator will cause the lugs to get hot which transfers to the cable lug terminals.
From the photo, you have four solenoids. One will be a disconnect for the house battery. Another will be the disconnect for the chassis battery. These are the black Bakelite bodied solenoids. The one centered above the battery disconnects is the auxiliary start boost solenoid. The very top solenoid is the charging solenoid that will allow the charging of both banks of batteries via the battery isolator controller. Battery Products is a link for more information.

[mrhockey]

Thanks for the link Wizzard. Looks like a good place to look around.

The contacts are clean and solid on the wires in question and on the solenoids as well. I have a pretty decent electrical background from working on and wiring up race cars with computers and multiple electrical devices that use solenoids as relays many times. I just wish that I could find a wiring diagram for this thing so I could understand where all the wires go since I cant see where they go.
The one thing I don't understand is why the wires leading to the on off switch that come from the left and right heavy lugs on the right hand solenoid got hot and melted when trying to start the generator. It seems like all the power to start that or that was switched over to start that came through that switch wire. Did it actually go through the solenoid but transfer to those wires? None of the others seemed hot. I am also trying to figure out how that switch activates the power to the chassis by jumpering those lugs. It doesn't actually activate the solenoid it just takes the hot from the left side and puts it over to the right side. What else is that 12v directly effecting when it does that? Is there something else on that right hand lug that then takes the 12v from that switch and take it to a bigger distribution panel?
Sorry for all the questions but like the rest of us we are blind without a diagram and I don't know if that switch is even stock or if someone rigged it up.
Thanks again.
Marc

[RV Wizard]

www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300131.100.pdf is how the battery isolator circuit is wired.
http://www.intellitec.com/PDF/5300066.100.pdf is how your battery disconnect circuit are wired and how the solenoids operate.
All of the components you show in your photos are factory installed at the time the coach was built. You have used the word switch. Are you talking about the switch inside the coach that controls the solenoids? Was it the small gage control wiring that was melted? There should be 5 amp fuses in the disconnect solenoids to protect the control wiring to and from the switches. I suggest you troubleshoot the battery disconnect circuits, it sounds as though they are not operating properly. Let us know what you find.

[mrhockey]

I will check those PDF files out. Thanks. The switch I am speaking of can be seen in my top picture and comes through the outside of the cover on the panel. It gets switched on or off to allow power back to the coach. The wires that went to this switch were melted maybe 14-16 gauge wires. The fuses on the sides of the solenoid were fine. I guess that switch is factory because I don't know how you would switch the power on to the coach. If I don't throw that switch the power doesn't get to the battery disconnect panel inside the door of the MH, at least to the coach switch.

[RV Wizard]

My apologies, I did not see the switch until you pointed it out. That is not factory installed. I would recommend you remove this switch and it's circuit so that the coach is wired the way it left the factory and check the battery disconnect circuits for proper operation.

[mrhockey]

Thanks for taking a second look. I am printing out the PDFs you linked me to above so I can read them easier. Like I mentioned I can hear the solenoid on the right, the one the switch is wired to, cycle open and closed while the coach is running but I am wondering why that switch is there. The light on the control panel at the rocker swicth for the coach on the Intellitec control panel won't come on unless that non factory switch is thrown. It just jumps hot from the left to the right side of the solenoid. Does that switch on the intellitec panel normally just light up when it is switched on and that operate or close the solenoid to let the power through?
The non factory switch almost seemed normal to me because on my renegade toterhome there was a big disconnect switch that kept the coach from draining the batteries to the chassis/engine so I thought maybe this was the same thing. I can't wait till it gets warmer up here and the snow isn't flying so I can mess with this thing some more. It is going to be around 50 this weekend so I hope to get out there.

[mrhockey]

Awsome schematics. I can see that the switch inside my door should operate the solenoid and also the led light on the switch panel. That is handled by the green and red wires, which if you look in the pic I took, they were apparently cut at one time and just had electrical tape around them so I took some solderless connectors and put them together and then taped the one end that I could get to. I wonder why they were taped together? Did someone replace that solenoid and cut those wires there since they didn't have any obvious ways of removing them from the solenoids? If this thing could talk.

[Rjhuser]

MRHOCKEY:

Don't know your system, but I do a lot of instrumentation system work.
The relay you are looking at is a mechanically latching relay. Momentary + to the "I" terminal and - to the "S" terminial energizes the relay and locks it "ON". Momentary reversing the connections deenergizes the relay.
I suspect the previos owner had a problem with the relay and put in the switch and wiring to get the coach lights on. No way a 16-14 gague wire will carry the load normally carried by the larger (6? to 4? gauage wires) on the main relay terminals. I would check the relay out - probably the contacts are burnt out or the soloenoid coil is bad.
To check it out - VERY CAREFULLY - connect a the red clamps of a jumper cable across the main studs of the relay and see if you get power in the coach and can crank the generator.

Rick

[mrhockey]

Thanks Rick. That is what I think that switch that is on the front of the panel pictured is doing. Just a light gauge wire, way to light to power the coach but big enough to trip a relay but thay aren't on the S or I posts. It is just jumpering the hot side to the not hot side. I am hoping that all the coach power isn't going through that because the solenoid is shot. The files that Wizard posted for me are great and I can see how the solenoids connect to the panels. I know without that switch thrown and the power from left to right on that solenoid there is no LED light on at the panel inside the door nor is there power to the generator to start it.

[mrhockey]

Well it warmed up here yesterday and I got back out to play with this a little more. I jumped 12V across the S and I terminal of the coach solenoid that had the switch on it and the solenoid tripped, so I know it's good.
I went to the battery disconnect switch panel and pushed the momentary rocker switch up and as expected it did nothing. When I push it down like I was disconnecting the battery the solenoid clicks and just as a double check so does the rocker switch for the chassis and I know that switch is working right.
My guess is it's the Intellitec BD2 panel. The coach switch does not have the same clicking feel to it that the one for the chassis does. I pulled the panel and jumpered what I think are the proper terminals on the panel that would go to the S and I terminals of the solenoid to activated it and there was no continuity there, but there was on the chassis switch. I think that rocker switch is bad.
I have found the panel for $46 on line. Does anyone know anywhere that has a rocking deal on these things or is that already one?

Thanks for the help.

Next on the list...............why the hydraulic leveling pump suddenly doesn't work. Solenoid is triggering on the motor and it's getting power through it but the motor doesn't work. It did the first night I bought and used it but then it stopped. The guy I bought it from said he never used it.

[mrhockey]

Well skip that last post. :-( After looking at the schematic a little closer and realizing how the solenoids open and close it looks like the panel and switches are fine.

My next guess is that there was no 12v at the panel to be applied to the solenoid when the switch was thrown. I have to figure out where the power supply for the coach comes to the panel from and see what we got tomorrow.