Adding a third cooling unit

[Smitty77]

We have the 04 model 40' Allure with two Penguin 15K units. 95% of the time, they keep us cool. But, I'm thinking of adding a third cooling unit.

But, not a third AC, but a TurboKOOL evaporative unit.

Would mount this above our galley area, in front of the 14" fan. (Probably just power it from Solar, but may add a power 12V feed too.)

Any thoughts on this, cautions, pro's, etc. Would be appreciated!!

TIA,
Smitty

[Burfman]

For many years Monaco had what they called the Whole House Fan. Located in the galley it would suck the hot air out of the coach. My buddy has one in his Windsor and it works pretty nice. IMO it needs a speed control and then it could be used when the weather is nice because when its on, it's noisy.
Question: What are you trying to accomplish?
Projects like this are fun...

[smlranger]

Sounds like you want to install a Swamp Cooler of sorts. Never knew they were made for RV's but will be interested in how it works.

[Smitty77]

Stay Cool with TurboKOOL - Advanced RV Evaporative Air (Swamp) Coolers


Sorry about my first post not being too swift... Phone call in the middle of the post, and then the DW tapping her toe as we were late to a good friends Birthday Party!!! Thus I left things out of my first post. (Which since it was such a short post for me, was probably noted by many of you...)

So more info:

Trying to accomplish?

> On extremely hot days, an additional amount of cooling aid to the coach.
> And on milder days while say boon docking. Some cooling of the coach without need to fire up the generator.
> On less warm days, on shore power or boon docking, quieter cooling fan noise then from the AC units. (Would close the door sliding door that divides off the bath/bedroom area.)

Swamp cooler?

> Yes, it's a swamp cooler.

Other info to share?

> I've been told by one gent that had a TurboKOOL into a home built Dodge Stealth Mercedes van, that the unit kept him cool in almost all the areas he'd traveled. He said only in one part of the country, with the combo of higher temperatures (Upper 90's as I recall.), combined with also higher humidity - did the system struggle. He did also confirm the it was moderately quiet, compared to friends of his standard roof top AC units in other Mercedes based van RV's.

> One downside, is I may need to move one of my Solar Panels, as I'm also trying to reduce self shadowing impact from roof top items.

> I also have a firm belief that at times that the two 15K Penguins struggle to keep our RV cooled. That a third 15 or 13.5K unit would do a better job of cooling. But higher costs. Higher costs and complexity to install. And not sure my generator (QD8000) would support a third AC unit. And, hoping that the TurboKOOK's additional would be enough to augment my two existing units.

> I'll also consider placing it the same spot our front of the coaches Fantastic Fan is now, with the 12V feed already in place, as the unit can also do Exhaust duty also. (But need to call and ask the vendor some questions on this. As we find we sometimes need to crank the Fantastic Fan up to high, while cooking, to avoid smoke detector noise!) (And another aside to not install this hear, is also have another thread going about possibly replacing both of our Fantastic Fans with he MAXXair Deluxe, as that unit has a lower roof profile, and can also be reversed to bring outside air into the coach. I think this would be handy to have as an option.)

I will finally share that I have not run this by the DW yet, as I'm still in the fact gathering and thinking thru phase. And would like more info from those that have added third units.

So now back to my longer worded posts!!!
Smitty

[Smitty77]

I just noted something I found on another thread I started on input about the MAXXair Deluxe fans. Which I'm pretty sure we'll add at least one to replace an sick Fantastic Fan. (Like the idea of reversible fan to bring in air flow from the outside to aid in quiet cooling in not to extreme temps. And the lower overall roof profile this unit has, especially when down, will help avoid shadowing of one of my solar panels from time to time.)

But also had time this AM to surf-edcuate on TubroKOOL. Ran into this thread from member Silverbob:

"We had Turbo-Kools on the last two TTs we owned. They worked very well out here in the deserts where we usually camp. Our 22' Airstream could be kept 20 degrees below outside temp while running the cooler on Medium speed. A single 80 watt solar panel will run one during the day, so battery draw is minimal. Be aware, though, they will go through a LOT of water if you run them on High! I brought (2) 55 gallon barrels of water to Burning Man one year, just for the Turbo-Kool. We were there for 8 days and ran out of water on Day #7."

Say even on half speed, this kind of volume of water usage will make this a no go for us. Sure we could go get more water form time to time while boon docking, we do that today with our 5 gallon portable bottle. But not always practical to do, so this maybe the deciding factor for us.

I'm going to contact the manufacturer to get more info on water usage on low/med/hight settings.

We'll see! Best to all,
Smitty

[Burfman]

Smitty some things to consider:
Quote: On extremely hot days, an additional amount of cooling aid to the coach.

Swamp coolers (Evaporative coolers) work entirely different from a mechanical refrigeration unit (air conditioner). Swamp coolers cool air via evaporation and deliver it to the confined space. They are very effective in the desert southwest, dry climate, (it's a dry heat). To function properly they bring in the fresh cool air and immediately send it back outside, they are not a recirculating unit as the A/C's are. You need to leave a window open for this air to escape.

Air conditioners on the other hand use the same air over and over and drop the temperature by cycles of air. A/C's today are good for about 20 degrees delta, return air to supply air. Start in a hot coach of say 80 and the supply air will be 60. As the air continues to cycle thru the evaporator, (cooling coil) it continues to drop. 75 in 55 out, 70 in 50 out.

Also the A/C's remove the moisture in the air as they cool it, condensate line dripping water off of the roof or under the coach if your model is plumbed that way. This way you get cool, crisp air inside which is very comfortable and keeps the cocktail glasses from sweating and leaving ring spots on the tables. ( Makes the wife happy and that's a good thing at least in my world)

When you try to run a swamp with the A/C the two units fight each other. One is adding moisture and the other is trying to remove it plus with the swamp you need to leave a window open thus adding more moisture laden air and load to the interior. The interior of the coach and furniture will absorb this moisture and it just makes it much harder for the A/C's to do their job if you constantly inject more and more moisture into the environment you are trying to cool.

Quote: I'll also consider placing it the same spot our front of the coaches Fantastic Fan is now, with the 12V feed already in place, as the unit can also do Exhaust duty also. (But need to call and ask the vendor some questions on this. As we find we sometimes need to crank the Fantastic Fan up to high, while cooking, to avoid smoke detector noise!)

Not sure the Turborcool can reverse direction. If it is a squirrel cage fan then no dice. They would have to have dampers in the unit to deflect the air as this type of fan is directional. If it's a blade or prop fan then maybe but wouldn't be very efficient.

I have the same Fantastic fans as I believe you do. Last year during a remodel I replaced both of the fans with their new version including the remote controls, forward and reverse fan direction. Ours work great for bringing air in on cool days and also for exhausting air out when we are cooking smokey stuff in the galley.

The change out took about 30 min once i got the gum off of the roof from the original 17 year old units.

Saying all that above I think a properly sized swamp cooler would be great in a Moho.. After living in the desert southwest for over 35 years my wife really likes the feel of the moist air from a swamp. We just get away when the temps head up to the 100+ area and don't come back until Oct/Nov. Also all of the above is gleaned from over 50+ years in the HVAC industry and just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

[Burfman]

Looks like i screwed up highlighting your quote. I wanted to reference the following:

I'll also consider placing it the same spot our front of the coaches Fantastic Fan is now, with the 12V feed already in place, as the unit can also do Exhaust duty also. (But need to call and ask the vendor some questions on this. As we find we sometimes need to crank the Fantastic Fan up to high, while cooking, to avoid smoke detector noise!)

[Smitty77]

Many thanks Bill. (You maybe can tell I grew up along the beaches of San Diego. We cool off by opening our Tommy Bahamas Shirts!!!)

I have zero experience with Evaporative Coolers. Got excited when I read the low power consumption, quieter operation, and yes reversible exhausting too capability. We do travel mostly in the South West, and or low humidity regions - so that part would be OK. But the water consumption I think makes this a no go.

The DW and I are on a four month trip, which will end with our yearly visit to Oregon Motor Coach. We're 'negotiating' (This means the DW gets what she wants. And I get everything that I want, as long as she approves it!) We'll see where this all fits into our prioritized list vs budget for this years upgrades.

I'm now going to pencil out three options:

1) Add a 13.5K unit to our two 15K's, and one MAXXfan Deluxe (But will recheck what Fantastic Fan has available now too.).

2) Add to MAXXfan Deluxe (Or FF's.) only.

3) Add two MAXXfan Deluxe's and a 13.5K AC unit.

It's not all about budgets either, as I usually like to make incremental changes to see when 'enough is enough'. And the DW's lists seems to start with #1 -6, and that would make my list start at #7... And I have other things in mind too...

So research will continue the next few months, and we'll compromise to what the DW wants! (And not really that way, but I sure enjoy teasing her that it is!)

Best to you, and all,
Smitty

[Burfman]

Sounds good Smitty. As you I grew up in SoCal back in the 50's and enjoyed many a fun day in the SD area. Not so much anymore with all of the concrete but still make it over to Mission Bay now and then.
Hope all works out for you.

Safe travels...

[rcpd715]

On our 1999 Affinity while it was in production, the factory removed the center AC and Standard Galley Exhaust Fan to replace it with Kool-O-Matic thermostatically controlled exhaust fan at customer request. I am not sure why they would do that? Any ideas?

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by rcpd715

On our 1999 Affinity while it was in production, the factory removed the center AC and Standard Galley Exhaust Fan to replace it with Kool-O-Matic thermostatically controlled exhaust fan at customer request. I am not sure why they would do that? Any ideas?

Kool-O-Matic's were frequently used in Monaco's of that era, and other brands too. I believe in 1999 CC was using Fantastic Fans, and it should have been also thermo controlled and probably had the rain sensor too(?).

Perhaps the person ordering the coach felt their travel plans would not require the third AC unit. And if coming from say a Monaco (Or other brand with Kool-O-Matic.), may just have preferred to run with what they know?

I have not experience with Kool-O-Matic, so do not know if they were considered a better exhaust fan then say Fantastic Fan's of that era.

That's all I got on this! Enjoy your fine rig,
Smitty

[rcpd715]

Thanks Smitty! I had a 1996 Monaco Dynasty from 1998 to 2001. I am not a big fan of them or their motor homes. The wiring was a mess, my headlights would randomly go out at night while driving, and seven service appointments they couldn't find out what was wrong. The air dam was on the back of the roof where water could run straight into the engine. I found out the hard way when it destroyed my engine. We called Monaco and learned they had a recall to add a cheap part to retrofit the exhaust so it would drain water out. They said my coach had been retrofitted and someone I hired must have taken it off. My motorhome was only serviced by the Monaco dealer , but still refused to pay for the motor. I spent 13k rebuilding the motor on an engine that 30,000 miles on it.

The only good thing about the experience was I met so many wonderful Country Coach owners and I fell in love with the brand immediately. 16 years later, I was able to purchase one

[Burfman]

Quote from RCPD715:

"The only good thing about the experience was I met so many wonderful Country Coach owners and I fell in love with the brand immediately. 16 years later, I was able to purchase one"

Welcome to the family of "The Worlds Finest Motorcoach". I have owned mine since 2001 and just flat out love it. Did a major redo last year on the interior and we are good to go for another 10 years.

Safe Travels

[Smitty77]

The DW and I have been looking for a very minor (We hope!) water leak for the last few hours. House Water Filter in the bulkhead next to the water bay; Water Bay access panel removed for inspection; Under lavatory sink inspected; Shower valve back end inspected; Kitchen sink area inspected.

We did not find our leak yet, and due to rain will wait a bit to check out the HydroHot bay. But we did drop a screw while under the bathroom sink area. So pulled the floor panel up to find it.

So what? Well in all of the crevices, and access panels we opened, we found clean and properly fastened bundles of wires, water lines. And, all of these cavities were basically clean. No dropped cut of pieces of junk wood, wires, etc.

Contrast this to other coaches I've worked on, where I've found soft drink cans, would pieces of cutout holes, wires looking like cotton candy runs, piping just laid on floors not fasted, etc.

CC did take pride in their assembly process. Are they perfect? Of course not, but still very please and proud of our fine 04 lady!

Best to all,
Smitty