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Old 07-22-2016, 03:58 PM   #1
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Air System Over Cycling?

Would like some feedback on similar coaches on how your air system is operating.

I had a over cycling problem back a few months ago after replacing the air drier. Right after install the purge valve was going off every two minutes when no air was being used. I found a total of three leaks that I have repaired, and it did take care of the problem. But I still feel like its not running correctly.

Couple of questions:

The manual says that the compressor should activate when air pressure is between 105 and 125. Mine is coming on after just using a few pounds for a stop. Even though the gauge is still showing 120 psi. Is this normal, seems like in the past, the system didn't cycle over on using just a small amount of air. I have replaced the D2 Governor.

How far apart does the green and orange needle run? Mine are about 8 psi from each other. Talking to Vern at CC last week he said when new they were supposed to be no more than 5psi apart. I did replace the check valve that sits between the main and secondary tank.

The Wabco compressor is very hard to access. Has anybody had to replace their unloader valve?
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:41 PM   #2
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Have you installed a rebuild kit in the purge valve? How old is the Webco desiccant filter? My system began acting weird right after purchase, so I decided to replace the filter first, before getting serious. I discovered the original filter was still in place after 13 years. Replaced the filter and installed a rebuild kit in the purge valve, problem solved.
Most any HDT parts shop has the necessary parts to service the air dryer in stock.
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Old 07-23-2016, 02:41 PM   #3
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Ray,

The air drier was replaced as a whole unit with a rebuilt Bendix. Once the over cycling began they went back and put in a new purge valve. Still kept over cycling so thats when I found the three leaks in the system. One that was on the check valve that sat between the main and secondary tanks.

Coming up on two years with this coach and just second guessing on a couple of issues that don't seem right. Thats why I was looking for some answers to see if I should look into this further.

Also I was not correct on my wording on the original post. The manual says the compressor should kick on when air pressure drops below 105 psi and shut off at 125psi. When my pressure drops even just a little bit off the 125 it kicks back on.
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Old 07-23-2016, 03:47 PM   #4
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Since the signal to the governor, comes from the wet tank, to turn the compressor on and then off, that is where I would be looking for a leak.

That tank had no gauge but if you screw one in, where the drain valve is, you can see what's going on.

I've seen a few that carbon up the check valve, at the wet tank. Then the air slowly leaks back out the open purge valve.

Good luck hunting.
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:56 PM   #5
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I'm curious about what you find. On my coach, it cycles about every thirty seconds, but only while the coach is moving. When it's running and not moving, it doesn't cycle. I'm thinking its a ride height valve leaking with movement.

Hope you find your problem.

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Old 07-23-2016, 10:02 PM   #6
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It sounds like a governor problem. It releases air pressure to the compressor to close the valves and start making air. Once its toped off the pressure is sent to both the compressor and air dryer so compressor stops and dryer spits.
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:19 AM   #7
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The governor is new, and symptoms did not change.

I thought that maybe it was a ride height control valve as well but I have inspected those several times over.

I can store the coach for a week and my air tanks will only drain out from 125 to around 90.

With pressures not dropping much on the main or secondary tanks you would think it has to be from the wet tank going backwards.


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Old 07-24-2016, 11:21 AM   #8
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Brett,
Another thought, when they checked for air leaks, did they check the line to the spring brakes? This is under pressure when the parking brake is released. When owners look for leaks they usually have the park brake set.

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Old 07-24-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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Bill,
I have not checked for that, but what is so weird is that both tank gauges are not dropping. While driving mine will purge every 2 to 3 min, but air tanks haven't dropped at all.

I believe my next step is to take twinboats advice and see what that wet tank is doing, as it does control the governor. The governor has three lines that come off of it. They go to the air drier, compressor, and wet tank. It should also tell me if there is a possible leak in that braided line from the compressor to the air drier. When I talked with Vern at CC these have been the culprit on some that have the same issues as mine. Even though I have sprayed it several times over it runs through some very tight areas that I can't see.

I have been checking for leaks myself, and I can tell you its a PITA. I drive the coach up on 6" ramps, then crawl around with my spray bottle. But I refuse to pay someone $115 per hour to do it.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:03 PM   #10
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If the braided line was leaking, you would have slow buildup but no leak once the compressor unloads. The wet tank check valve prevents that.

The lines from the compressor to the wet tank, including the dryer, are unloaded unless the compressor is pumping.

With the 3 small lines, the wet tank to govenor line will be pressurized all of the time and a leak would be easy to hear.

The 2 lines FROM the governor to the unloader valves, in the compressor and air dryer, are only pressurised when in unload mode.

The govenor sends air to both unloader valves at 120 PSI. It will stop sending it's signal ( air pressure ), as soon as the pressure on the wet tank drops back to 90 PSI. At 90 PSI the govenor turns the compressor back on and closes the purge valve.

So, with that, you need to get it up to pressure and the dryer to unload, before you can look and listen for a leak.

Then, be quick enough that you find the leak, before the pressure drops and the governor cuts the flow to the 2 small lines again.

If you can charge the system to 120 PSI, from a remote air supply, you will make your job easier. Pull the drain on the wet tank and connect a long air hose from a distant compressor.

Govenor, Government, both complicated. Must be in the name.
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
If the braided line was leaking, you would have slow buildup but no leak once the compressor unloads. The wet tank check valve prevents that.

The lines from the compressor to the wet tank, including the dryer, are unloaded unless the compressor is pumping.

With the 3 small lines, the wet tank to govenor line will be pressurized all of the time and a leak would be easy to hear.

The 2 lines FROM the governor to the unloader valves, in the compressor and air dryer, are only pressurised when in unload mode.

The govenor sends air to both unloader valves at 120 PSI. It will stop sending it's signal ( air pressure ), as soon as the pressure on the wet tank drops back to 90 PSI. At 90 PSI the govenor turns the compressor back on and closes the purge valve.

So, with that, you need to get it up to pressure and the dryer to unload, before you can look and listen for a leak.

Then, be quick enough that you find the leak, before the pressure drops and the governor cuts the flow to the 2 small lines again.

If you can charge the system to 120 PSI, from a remote air supply, you will make your job easier. Pull the drain on the wet tank and connect a long air hose from a distant compressor.

Govenor, Government, both complicated. Must be in the name.
Twinboat,
My system purges as it should while sitting parked. While on the road it purges about every 30 to 60 seconds, does this point to air ride system? And how would you check this for leaks when the RV is not moving?

Brett,
I just paid Cummins $ 178/hr. for reprogramming the ECM.

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Old 07-24-2016, 05:35 PM   #12
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Twinboat,
Changing out the air dryer is when all of this began, so I have been really concentrating on it.

So I have been inspecting the line from the air dryer to the govenor by letting the system purge then shutting down the engine and then spraying. Should that line not be pressurized at that time?

Thanks for all your info, this is good stuff to know.
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:40 PM   #13
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Twinboat,
Changing out the air dryer is when all of this began, so I have been really concentrating on it.

So I have been inspecting the line from the air dryer to the govenor by letting the system purge then shutting down the engine and then spraying. Should that line not be pressurized at that time?

Thanks for all your info, this is good stuff to know.
It will be pressurized right after purge, until the wet tank pressure drops to 90 PSI.
Don't know how fast it drops or how fast you can get to it, after shutdown.

You could remove the small air dryer line at the governor and put a 1/8 pipe plug in its place.

Doing that, you won't get a purge but you should be able to hear the compressor quiet down when it unloads. Them let it run and hang out for a half hour or so and listen for it to pump again. If it don't cycle, it's that line or unloader valve, itself.

Good luck.
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Old 07-24-2016, 06:48 PM   #14
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Twinboat,
My system purges as it should while sitting parked. While on the road it purges about every 30 to 60 seconds, does this point to air ride system? And how would you check this for leaks when the RV is not moving?

Brett,
I just paid Cummins $ 178/hr. for reprogramming the ECM.

Bill
Are either of your tank gauges dropping between purges ?

If yes, it could be a leak in the park brake circuit.

Chock the wheels, build up the air and shut it down. Push in the park brake button and listen for leaks near the rear brake chambers.

If no tank gauge drop, does it purge at all, ideling ?

If no, you may be hearing the relief valve blowing off and not purging at all. Test that by bringing the engine RPM up to 1600, while sitting. If you here it purging make sure it's from the port on the air dryer.
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