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Old 04-13-2013, 10:29 PM   #1
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Allison + + again... Help please.

Started the coach a couple times today letting run for about 15 minutes. then after about an hour on the third start, the allison trans controller has the + + again, and key will not turn the engine over. It's like every thing is a dead key.

Both sets of battery systems were 12.8 when I began the day.

Checking the batteries after dead key (house is at 12.5 volts) (chassis went from 12.8 to 12.1 volts after about 2 hours of having the disconnect switch on and running the motor for a while). Every now and then the lady in the dash tells me I have low voltage. but both sets of batteries are above 12 volts.

Been plugged into shore power the last couple weeks so house battery should be very good. I disconnected shore and kicked on the generator, house went to 13.8 and chassis stayed at 12.1.

I moved the tranny power wire from the chassis battery to the house battery to see if that would help, (no change). I put the charger on the chassis battery to kick up the volts, will see what it looks like in the am.

Any thoughts? I plan on changing the chassis batteries tomorrow with new ones, but I am not convinced this is the problem since I am showing over 12 volts on both systems and motor will not turn over and the + + is n the trans.

Does anyone know if the transmission would keep power from going to the motor for starting. Or is there a voltage controller somewhere that has to have a certin voltage or amperage before the motor can be started. I am thinking a controller of some kind because of the lady in the dash saying I have low voltage.

Supposed to be camping next weekend but do not want to get stuck broke down or worse. Also, are there techs that can test and fix the coach or do I need to tow to a service center?
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:37 PM   #2
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I sounds like you have battery problems. Take a look at the chart attached.
Check specific gravity of each cell.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:05 PM   #3
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Additionally, currently I have two interstate workaholic 4d-xhd 1000cca. I am not sure I can find anything locally, any suggestions what I can use for a replacement or where a good place to purchase these size batteries?
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIX View Post
I sounds like you have battery problems. Take a look at the chart attached.
Check specific gravity of each cell.
So each cell could have a different voltage. 1 at 90% and the rest at 10%. Giving the appearance of a fully charged 12.8 battery but with little to no actual power to do anything. Which if this were the case could be the reason why when I turn the light switch to illuminate the gauges, just the current draw from the dash lights causes the gauges to jump from normal to low and jump back and forth as I twist the light knob back and forth. Initally I thought this might be a ground problem, but now I am thinking otherwise.

And why the lady in the dash is telling me I have a low voltage problem, when the batteries appear fully charged.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:20 AM   #5
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So each cell could have a different voltage. 1 at 90% and the rest at 10%. Giving the appearance of a fully charged 12.8 battery but with little to no actual power to do anything. Which if this were the case could be the reason why when I turn the light switch to illuminate the gauges, just the current draw from the dash lights causes the gauges to jump from normal to low and jump back and forth as I twist the light knob back and forth. Initally I thought this might be a ground problem, but now I am thinking otherwise.

And why the lady in the dash is telling me I have a low voltage problem, when the batteries appear fully charged.
The "lady in the dash" is probably just talking about the chassis battery(batteries) and 12.1 volts is not a fully charged battery.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:38 AM   #6
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The "lady in the dash" is probably just talking about the chassis battery(batteries) and 12.1 volts is not a fully charged battery.
Your right 12.1 would be approx 50%, where as a 12.8 would be 100%. I previously thought a 50% battery would produce 6 volts.... dumb, dumb, dumb.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:46 AM   #7
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Sam's for the batteries. Check the dates on them first. If one goes bad, you don't have to chase all over to find a distributer.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:48 AM   #8
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the allison trans is wired directly to the battery, which does not get disconnected with the battery disconnect switch. Is that a good idea. Or should that be re routed to the 12volt compartment and put on the power bar with all other 12 volt components that get disconnected, via solenoid.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #9
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Sam's for the batteries. Check the dates on them first. If one goes bad, you don't have to chase all over to find a distributer.
The SAMs in my area has a 1400cca size 8d. I currently have a 1000cca size 4d.

Are there dangers to the components going from 1000 to 1400 CCA.

On the dates, am I looking for batteries in a close proximity to each other, or to today's date. How old should I limit my choice to.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
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The SAMs in my area has a 1400cca size 8d. I currently have a 1000cca size 4d.

Are there dangers to the components going from 1000 to 1400 CCA.

On the dates, am I looking for batteries in a close proximity to each other, or to today's date. How old should I limit my choice to.
Going to a more powerful battery in the same size group will never cause you problems; it simply will to help insure you have enough power to start the engine.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:30 AM   #11
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You could also check at Batteries Plus stores for 8D batteries. I am using two of their 8D with 1300 CCA for past three years.

12.1 v in the chassis battery should be enough to start the engine, especially if you have a battery boost switch to combine the house and chassis banks. If no boost switch, put a jumper cable on the positive posts of the house and chassis battery and see if that changes the status of the Allison. I have driven a 100 miles with that set up when my alternator failed.

If the battery boost does not change the transmission status then the power is not reaching the transmission module (wiring/disconnect switch?) or it is not recognized by the transmission (sender?).

Generator and Shore Power will not charge the chassis batteries.

Yes, the transmission will keep the engine from starting or shut it down without adequate 12v. I do not know what the ++ reading is, but does need to read nn to start the engine.

My lady in the dash sounds the low battery voltage warning when the house battery is on and the chassis battery disconnect is engaged or when the alternator is weak or sometimes when I shut down the engine. Without the house battery, she has no power to speak.

Valley Power Systems Valley Power Systems has a location in Ontario and is an Allison service facility. They might be able to assist in getting the rig started over the phone or shed some light on the code you are seeing displayed.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #12
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Hi guys, ok put 2 brand new 4d 1000 CCA batteries, cleaned all connections, even cleaned the ground to chassis where the cables are bolted to the frame. No change.

Put a charger on new batteries, voltage reading 13 something... Still no change.

I was thinking maybe there is a voltage regulator that is not working, mainly because again even now when I turn on my dash lights the voltage reading drop to around 11 and fluctuates as I dim the dash lights, whereas the voltage reading on the large display above the dash stays around 13 volts.

Yes, the non start has to do with the tranny, as soon as the nn returns the engine starts right up. The trick is getting the nn on the tranny. Last time It appeared to be power related because it just suddenly fixed itself when I turned on the generator and charged the batteries up a bit.

Gotta love intermittent power problems.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:25 PM   #13
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Hi guys, ok put 2 brand new 4d 1000 CCA batteries, cleaned all connections, even cleaned the ground to chassis where the cables are bolted to the frame. No change.

Put a charger on new batteries, voltage reading 13 something... Still no change.

I was thinking maybe there is a voltage regulator that is not working, mainly because again even now when I turn on my dash lights the voltage reading drop to around 11 and fluctuates as I dim the dash lights, whereas the voltage reading on the large display above the dash stays around 13 volts.

Yes, the non start has to do with the tranny, as soon as the nn returns the engine starts right up. The trick is getting the nn on the tranny. Last time It appeared to be power related because it just suddenly fixed itself when I turned on the generator and charged the batteries up a bit.

Gotta love intermittent power problems.
I believe the Allison only needs 10VDC to operate.
I, (and another Safari owner), had bad wires to the Allison VIM which caused starting and/or shifting and shifter display problems.
Mine was a corroded + wire from the chassis battery to the VIM.
It allowed 12VDC to pass through, (but not enough amps).

His was a bad neg/ground wire.

Allison specifies that both of those wires must run directly from the chassis battery to the VIM.

Another time, (when the trans would not shift out of N), I found that one of the six relays in the VIM had gone bad....(there are also 2 fuses in the VIM).
Here is a link to an image of an Allison VIM, (Vehicule Interface Module):
Google Image Result for http://www.nwrvsupply.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/AllisonTrans%20VIM.jpg

BTW, a blown, (or corroded), fuse, (inline near the chassis batt pos post) will cause a "no start" condition.

Mel '96 Safari
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:15 PM   #14
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I replaced the ground and positive connectors at the battery. Checked fuses, reseated the VIM connections... Ug same + +. (yelling UNCLE) I am exhausted. Dean, I am calling ValleyPowerSystems in the morning... Hopefully they can come out and quickly fix this one for me. I will post what the problem was.
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