Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Country Coach Owners Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-27-2016, 12:59 PM   #1
Moderator Emeritus
 
smlranger's Avatar


 
Country Coach Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 6,745
Blog Entries: 1
Are my AGM's toast?

My coach has been sitting at a shop for about one month for some work (skylight replacement, repair roof AC, carpet replacement). When I left the coach there, I asked the owner to make sure the battery switches in the battery bay were switched off while it sat.

Stopped by today to get something out of the coach and all the batteries are stone dead . The blade switch on the house (six GC24 AGM's) was open but the chassis battery switch was in the ON position. He had replaced the skylight three weeks ago so I suspect he had the house batteries on while working in the coach and forgot to open the switch when he parked the coach. He told me he had recently moved the coach on the lot and had to jump start it to move it. I suspect that is when he opened the blade switch on the house batteries but it was too late.

He said he was going to jump start the coach today, move it closer to his building and plug it in. The carpet has arrived and he wants to get started.

My concern is the state of my 2 year old $1,500 AGM's. I believe my Magnum manual says the inverter/charger won't even try to charge them if they are below a certain voltage. I guess he will have to use an external charger on them.

These are my first AGM's. Do AGM's have the ability to come back from a complete discharge? I closed the blade switch and checked the display on my ME remote and there was nothing.... completely dark display.

Now I wish I had brought the coach back home while he was waiting on the carpet to arrive.
__________________

__________________
'07 Country Coach Allure 470 Siskiyou Summit #31578, Cummins ISL 425; 2014 Ford F150 toad; Air Force One Toad Brake.
Glen Allen, VA; Smith Mountain Lake, VA.
smlranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-27-2016, 01:11 PM   #2
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by smlranger View Post
My concern is the state of my 2 year old $1,500 AGM's. I believe my Magnum manual says the inverter/charger won't even try to charge them if they are below a certain voltage. I guess he will have to use an external charger on them.

These are my first AGM's. Do AGM's have the ability to come back from a complete discharge? I closed the blade switch and checked the display on my ME remote and there was nothing.... completely dark display.
smlranger
Take those AGMs to a good battery shop and have them load tested.
Mel
'96 Safari
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 03:59 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
dons2346's Avatar
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,971
The ME inverter will not charge a totally dead battery. Jump start the coach and let the alternator charge the house bank enough to start the generator and then start the genny and let the ME recharge the house
__________________
Don
2002 Country Coach Intrigue
dons2346 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 06:23 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,384
Your CC may have some sort of low voltage disconnect.

If so it should have dropped at 10.5 or so.

Having them stand for a period may not cause harm but that would depend on how low the voltage dropped.

The on board charger may not be wired to activate so connect any charger to the batteries to bring them up to where the system kicks in.

Our coach battery disconnect is powered by chassis battery.

If yours wss left on and chassis battery discharged then coach battery likely will not connect and trying to use boost may allow it to work.

Only a load test can fully test the capacity of the batteries but a conductance device like alber or celtron can be used to see if all are similar so if one is real bad it may show.

If yiu have a charger with an amp meter you can seperate the batteries and observe the charging current for each as a bad battery will usually be less.
__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:45 PM   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
smlranger's Avatar


 
Country Coach Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 6,745
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks for the suggestions.

I know the chassis batteries are completely dead because the entry steps were stuck half out when I got there. I went inside the coach and tried the battery boost switch and there was nothing.

At this point, I will leave the coach there until they finish the carpet install (to be done week after July 4). When I get the coach, I plan to discuss the battery issue with the owner. I would propose that if I discover by testing that any/all of them are not good, I would expect him to replace them. Not sure he will go for that.

The coach came with a chassis battery disconnect switch. I installed a blade switch on the house batteries since I knew the salesman switch did not really isolate them from parasitic loads. I informed the shop about using those switches when the coach was sitting and not connected to shore power.

This issue has me thinking more about a solar panel that can maintain the house batteries.
__________________
'07 Country Coach Allure 470 Siskiyou Summit #31578, Cummins ISL 425; 2014 Ford F150 toad; Air Force One Toad Brake.
Glen Allen, VA; Smith Mountain Lake, VA.
smlranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 07:57 PM   #6
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 206
Optimas will come back from the dead, I know. How you go about charging them from dead is dependent on the charger. Some chargers assume the is no battery at the cables because there is no resistance or voltage. In this case ,you have to trick the charger. Buy the cheapest battery charger you can find that puts 4 to 6 amps at 12 volts. Obviously, if they are 6 volt batteries you need a 6 volt charger. You need to connect it across the batteries one at a time until your coaches charger wakes up to the fact there is something at the end of the cables. It is a pain with a big battery bank but it works.
__________________
Beau388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 08:10 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 24,055
We have a Freedom inverter/charger. The manual says it will charge a dead battery. Have never had to find out!!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 07:31 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,384
Locate "any old charger" that you can find and if you have one a long extension cord.

Charger only needs to be 10 amp or less and "automatic" better.

Automatic is usually just a better regulated one than non...

Ask them to allow you to connect the charger direct to a battery bank and leave it plugged in.

Real dead batteries do not care much for high chance rate but soaking at lesser rate over many days may get them up.
__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 07:43 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
B Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,147
I used to store our rig at a place who's workers were the three stooges. Not being able to get these fools to turn off the electrics fully in the end was the major reason we don't use them any more. I put in new MK AGMS and they came back from the dead several times. But it weakens them. After two years they were shot and a second set were about half paid for by the battery warranty. Yours should also have a warranty, but I would guess your batteries will be OK if only run dry once.

What I cannot figure out was how your chassis batteries got fully discharged? My six year old MK's never got discharges by the stooges because they were not hooked up to the house stuff.

Here is a lesson I learned. About a year ago I had to replace the second set of house batteries because the stooges ran them dry a few times and they gave out. So I put in good quality Interstate deep cycle batteries. My experience when I had a sailboat was that deep cycle were more durable than gel batteries. I only paid about $125 less each battery (4 8D's) for the deep cycle. Well they work fine by are a PIA. They go through lots of water in hot weather. Like a gallon at a time for all four. Plus the tops of the batteries get burp stuff on them. I did have the chargers changed so they charge using the deep cycle voltages. So far I wish I had just ponied up the additional money for the AGM's. Seems like my sailboat batteries did not burp over. Could be I am doing the charging wrong.

Frankly keeping the house batteries good on this coach have been an expensive pain in the a$$.
__________________
B Bob
Country Coach 42' Affinity
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
B Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 07:54 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 562
I'd get them to replace, if they don't take them to small claims court . Unlike flooded batteries, agms do not take well to mishandling. This is why I don't recommend them for most users, as a single mistake can severely affect their value proposition . Be mindful of what you sign when you pick up the rv.
A load test won't reveal a degradation of storage capacity, only surge current capacity.
__________________
marcham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 08:10 AM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
smlranger's Avatar


 
Country Coach Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 6,745
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Bob View Post

What I cannot figure out was how your chassis batteries got fully discharged? My six year old MK's never got discharges by the stooges because they were not hooked up to the house stuff.

.
When I first saw the coach sitting in the lot, I noticed the entry steps half way out. I immediately opening the battery bay and the chassis battery switch was left ON and the blade switch on the house batteries was open (OFF). Guessing..... he had worked on the coach in the second week of it being there. He parked it while waiting 4 weeks for the carpet to arrive and probably left both battery switches on. He said he had to move the coach to make some room on the lot and had to jump start it. I suspect he then decided to open the house battery switch but forgot to turn the chassis battery switch off. So, parasitic loads killed the chassis battery.

I just hope the takes the time to use an external charger to get the house batteries charged enough for my ME inverter/charger to finish them up. If he just jump starts the coach, moves it and plugs it in to shore power, nothing is going to happen.

I would go back over there today to make sure he is doing something but he has a good reputation in this area and said he would take care of everything. I don't want to show up again and make him think I don't trust him.
__________________
'07 Country Coach Allure 470 Siskiyou Summit #31578, Cummins ISL 425; 2014 Ford F150 toad; Air Force One Toad Brake.
Glen Allen, VA; Smith Mountain Lake, VA.
smlranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 10:10 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
BobGed's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,751
I just experienced a similar situation with my house batteries. Coach was dropped off for a head gasket replacement. I knew the coach was going to be at the shop for a while going through the diagnostic state and submitting a claim to my extended service contract company.

I told the service manager I had turned the battery disconnect switch off and it needed to stay that way while the coach was parked. The other alternative, which I preferred, was to have the coach plugged into 110V shore power (I had the step down connectors in place, so all they had to do was connect an extension cord). He said he would try and keep it parked next to the building with the 110V connected.

Long story short, that information was obviously not passed down to the service techs as when I went to pickup the coach I couldn't start the genset. We check the batteries and they were at ~5 volts. I have Lifeline GPL-6CT AGM batteries with a Magnum inverter, and the system needs to see at least 8 volts in order to charge. I called Lifeline and they told me the batteries could be brought back up, but they were probably compromised to some unknown extent. He said it was best to have the three stage on-board charger bring them back up, and suggested we temporarily tie in a known good 12 volt battery to 'fool' the system into seeing something greater than 8 volts. We did that and and it worked.

After a bit of conversation the service manager finally offered to replace the batteries, but it would take him a while to get them. There's a bit more to the story but it's not germaine to this topic. In the end everything worked out to my satisfaction.
__________________
Bob, Sherron & Kinsey (Goldendoodle)
2009 Tiffin Phaeton 40QSH
2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited
BobGed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 04:56 AM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
smlranger's Avatar


 
Country Coach Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 6,745
Blog Entries: 1
I drove back to the shop yesterday to check on progress. I decided I would get him to jump start the coach so I could take it for a long drive and let the alternator charge the house batteries so the on-board charger could then take over.

When I got there he had one of those big shop battery chargers on the engine batteries. We tried starting the coach but it would do nothing. So he connected his F250 diesel truck to try and jump start it and still no go. We tried the 'engine start' mode on the big charger and still nothing. So we load tested the chassis batteries and one tested stone bad and the other tested very weak. He is getting two new Interstate MHD-31's today. My chassis batteries are 3 years old. We put the charger on the house batteries in the 10 amp mode and they were charging up when I left.

Once he gets the new chassis batteries installed and gets the coach running, he is going to connect it to shore power. He has another CC (Inspire) that has been there about the same time as my coach and he says he hasn't had any issues with the batteries. They were working on it yesterday.

Hopefully the carpet will get installed next week and I will get the coach back. I just hope the house batteries will hold a charge. I spoke to the Full River tech folks and they said the batteries had exceptional ability to recover from a full discharge.
__________________
'07 Country Coach Allure 470 Siskiyou Summit #31578, Cummins ISL 425; 2014 Ford F150 toad; Air Force One Toad Brake.
Glen Allen, VA; Smith Mountain Lake, VA.
smlranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 08:32 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
becks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SE Minnesota
Posts: 2,379
Gary, as you stated putting some solar on is always helpful. We did just that last winter, and wished we had done it sooner. Good luck.
__________________

__________________
06 TS-42-DS04
1040 watts of solar
2014 Jeep Rubicon/2003 Honda CRV
becks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When are AGM's not AGM's? bokobird iRV2.com General Discussion 39 09-24-2014 08:59 AM
Onan circuit board is toast inspectorudy Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 3 07-06-2010 01:24 AM
A Toast to MM GoneFishin Monaco Owner's Forum 23 01-12-2008 02:19 AM
AGM Batteries, Are You Happy With Your AGM's? Are They The Answer? Lug_Nut Newmar Owner's Forum 36 11-25-2007 07:59 AM
TV is toast - highbeams ok Y-Guy Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 6 12-24-2006 06:03 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.