Battery Temps

[ron930cab]

Looking for input on Battery temperatures. 2004 CC with the battery compartment that is open to the engine on the backside. Have owned since new. Had new inverter installed (Magnum 3012), has been verified by Eric’s guys in Tucson. First trip out, high battery temp fault on inverter (156 deg). Checked when home, yep 156 deg on IR temp reader. Chassis battery was 144 deg and the engine area was 175 deg (engine was off). Had the battery temp sensor on older inverter too, but no faults and I didn’t look at the temps while under high heat. It was 112 in Phoenix yesterday, my garage was about 90, when charging the batteries last night were 118 deg, so easy I think for them to be greatly above that with high load/heat. The high temp cutoff on the Magnum is 129 deg, that seems too low and does not seem adjustable. Will call Magnum today. First, I want to check the temps while driving with the inverter disconnected. See what I get with just engine heating, alternator charge and a bit of solar. There is a big hassle with this fault condition, it idles the inverter and does not pass 120v from the shore or generator until the battery temp goes down.
Inputs/Thoughts, thanks Ron

[gpounder]

The batteries will not melt, but the chemical reaction will accelerate and you wear out the battery faster and they will loose water faster. Try to figure out a way to either isolate them from engine heat or/and provide more airflow.

[ron930cab]

Thanks, makes sense and CC and other manufactures changed the design in later years. Trying to make sure there isn't something that failed or changed recently, or was it always like this.

[Smitty77]

The on our battery change over last year, I replaced my single 8D starter (Cummins ISL) with a Lifeline Starter battery. Was also replacing the X's 4 L16's Lifeline House bank at the same time.

Since I was going to full AGM's all around, I went ahead and covered the egg crate grill that opens to the bottom of my battery compartment. Our back wall towards the engine is for sure not airtight, having penetrations for some of the battery wires to feed thru to the engine for starting, and elsewhere. But those holes were about up quite aways, and I sprayed a bit of expandable foam between the wires to semi seal those penetrations. On the bottom, I used 1/8th thick pieces of plexiglass, attached to the bottom of the egg crate grill with zip ties. I used a bead of sealant around the perimeter where the plexiglass would but up to the support box beams the egg crate grill was attached to. Snugging up on the zip ties, made a relatively tight seal. I then used gorilla tape all around the edges, to also help on watertightness (I was out of Eternabond, except for a few emergency pieces for in case I say Hi to a tree limb or something. Or I would have used Eternabond to go around the perimeter, and never worry about it again. Expect the Gorilla Tape will eventually need to be removed/replaced. But 14-15 months now and holding well.),

The net result, is the inside of the battery compartment is probably 95%+ less dusty now. And I've seen no signs of water getting in. (Our battery compartment is behind the Passenger Tag, and the moisture tossed up while driving in rain, and dust when going down a dirt toad, used to make regular cleaning of the battery compartment a necessity.)

When i shift to Lithiums (Currently looking at LifeBlue Drop In's - but who knows what will come out in I hope the 5-7 more years I should get out of this bank), I'll either add Dynamat, or some other engine hood like insulation, on inside of the panel toward the engine, as well as to the bottom and sides/tops of the compartment, as much as possible. And I'll add a 12V heating pad under the LifeBlue's too. And since the compartment is below a dresser in our non slide side of our bedroom. Pretty sure I can get some venting tubes run between the battery compartment and beneath the dresser, with a pancake fan to pull AC air from the bedroom, down into the battery compartment, to help reduce heat during out hot months in Arizona!!).

I share all that, as I wonder if you could have sheet metal wall with insulation, to the rear side facing the engine, to shield your battery from engine heat. And the BIG CAT does fill the cavity engine bay just a bit more then the ISL, so suspect your bank is closer to the engine to start with!!

As mentioned, excessive heat will shorten your batteries lifespans. So for the long haul, blocking as much of the heat coming as possible will help. I've also seen SOB's with hot battery compartments, add cooling fans, to help pull cooler air in, and exhaust the hot air out.

Best of luck to you on this, hope other's might toss in some ideas of any changes they may have made... And of course, if you stay out of the hot regions, that will help form the outside weather heat build up!

Smitty
04 Allure 31017

[ron930cab]

Smitty, thanks, that makes sense to help keep the batteries cooler. I did the test this morning with the inverter off (no charging, no inverting) and 10 miles out on the test run batteries were at 145 deg, 155 or so by the time I got home. So it is not the inverter. Called Magnum, turns out this fault (Battery Temp Sensor or BTS) was only implemented as a fault in more recent inverters. So to be clear the sensor and software were in the older inverters, but they only added this fault condition more recently. So I now know why my old inverter was OK and this new one is not. He said either cool the batteries down below 129 deg or pull the plug on the sensor. The default charging based on 77 deg will have to be good enough.

[TQ60]

95 degrees is a generic number used for battery environment along with 68 to 72 degrees.

Optimum is 68 to 72 and anything above 95 can cause hard damage to the battery.

If flooded check water often.

Do not consider AGM or other battery types until the battery environment can be controlled such it is within the battery requirements.

There are a few batteries designed for more harsh environment but check the warranty limitations to be sure.

Earlier post insulating was good.

Insulated foam sheets to isolate from engine and fans to draw air from road level or cabin a.c. will help.

[Kodiakan]

Just a thought which you probably already checked. These alternators throw a lot of juice. Are you sure it is cycling properly and not overcharging the batteries?

[BatteryPro]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

… When i shift to Lithiums (Currently looking at LifeBlue Drop In's - but who knows what will come out in I hope the 5-7 more years I should get out of this bank), I'll either add Dynamat, or some other engine hood like insulation, on inside of the panel toward the engine, as well as to the bottom and sides/tops of the compartment, as much as possible. And I'll add a 12V heating pad under the LifeBlue's too. ...
Smitty
04 Allure 31017

Hi Smitty,

Good News!! No need to retrofit a heater anymore for Li batteries. LiFeBlue now has models with automatic heating systems built in. See: LiFeBlue Battery Prices RV Marine Lithium Ion Battery with Bluetooth Smart Connect

For any wondering why battery heating is important: If you charge a Li-ion battery that has frozen cells, you can cause immediate and permanent damage. It is bad enough that you have damaged your expensive energy storage device, but that is not the worst thing. The damage can later create a fire hazard if the dendrite formations penetrate the separator causing a short circuit. (Google this for more info) My opinion: never buy a Li battery that does not prevent charging the cells if they are frozen.

Happy Trails!
Larry

[BatteryPro]

Originally Posted by ron930cab

Looking for input on Battery temperatures.

Originally Posted by ron930cab

2004 CC with the battery compartment that is open to theengine on the backside. Have owned since new. Had new inverter installed (Magnum 3012), has been verified by Eric’s guys in Tucson.First trip out, highbattery temp fault on inverter (156 deg). Checked when home, yep 156 deg on IR temp reader. Chassis battery was 144deg and the engine area was 175 deg (engine was off). Had the battery temp sensor on older inverter too, but no faults and I didn’t look atthe temps while under high heat. It was 112 in Phoenix yesterday, my garage was about 90, when charging the batteries last night were118 deg, so easy I think forthem to be greatly above that with high load/heat. The high temp cutoff on the Magnum is 129 deg, that seemstoo low and does not seem adjustable. Will call Magnum today. First, I want to check the temps while driving with the inverterdisconnected. See what I get with just engine heating, alternator charge and a bit of solar. There is a big hassle with this fault condition, itidles the inverter and does not pass 120v from the shore or generator until the battery temp goes down.
Inputs/Thoughts, thanks Ron

Hello Ron,

The operating temperature for Magnum inverters is (-4°F to 140°F). Before high temp cut off is reached, the controller will reduce charge current while trying to keep below the cut-off point.

It is generally worthwhile to actively cool the inverter if you have a way to do that. Here’s a quote from the manual, "The ambient temperature around the inverter must not exceed 77°F (25°C) to meet power specifications.”

Off greater concern is your battery temps. At 118°F, you can expect only about 40% of their potential cycle life. Keep them cool also if you have a way. Or (IMO), if that can’t be done, always buy the cheapest battery as it will likely be shot in about 2 years if they spend much time at those temps.

Happy Trails!
Larry

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by BatteryPro

Hi Smitty,

Good News!! No need to retrofit a heater anymore for Li batteries. LiFeBlue now has models with automatic heating systems built in. See: LiFeBlue Battery Prices RV Marine Lithium Ion Battery with Bluetooth Smart Connect

For any wondering why battery heating is important: If you charge a Li-ion battery that has frozen cells, you can cause immediate and permanent damage. It is bad enough that you have damaged your expensive energy storage device, but that is not the worst thing. The damage can later create a fire hazard if the dendrite formations penetrate the separator causing a short circuit. (Google this for more info) My opinion: never buy a Li battery that does not prevent charging the cells if they are frozen.

Happy Trails!
Larry

Thanks Larry - I'd seen these were now available from LifeBlue, and posted about is SOT (Some of Thread!). What I think is cool (Some pun intended!) about this, is I can now focus on our hot weather travels cooling of the bay.

When I make this shift, I'll still go ahead and insulate the bay, and tighten up some areas for dust and moisture. And also on the Country Coaches, add some pan cake fan cooling to the enclosed cabinet within the battery cabinet where the Inverter/Charger are located.

I've mapped out the layout, and as mentioned, can get AC cooled air out of the back bedroom down into battery bay cabinet. I was hoping to use two 6" vent type hoses, but looks like I'll need to use three 4" vent hoses. So three sets of, two with pancake fans pulling cool air form the AC cooled air from the bedroom, and then one returning back for full cycle circulation. (Got DW buy-in on my proposed cabinet mod's. As it should give her two slide out racks for shoes, where today this cabinet us used for our larger Mr Heat Buddy, which we will retire and rough it with our small Heat Buddy (Which is in a basement bay.). (I do need to budget for more shoes potential!!!)

And of course all of this, is if I continue to lose my mild offensive on swapping coaches to a 42' with a larger block engine, and hopefully no micro checking!! (So far, all skirmishes have resulted as a Win for the DW... But, it's the long game I'm playing here!! So probably a solid 20-30% chance I could prevail - better odds then normal!!)

Best to you, and all,
Smitty