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Old 03-15-2011, 05:21 PM   #1
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coach won't start

I have a 2007 Allure 470 #31461 and it won't crank. I all started when my
Xantrex Prosine 3.0 Showed a system shut down. Put charger on Chassie Batteries for 24 hours at 10 amps, but no crank.

Any suggestions?

Terry
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:49 AM   #2
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What battery voltage do you have when the starter is engaged? Have you made sure the disconnects are turned on? Have you tried using the Auxiliary/Boost switch. If you have good voltage to the starter; check for control voltage from the ignition. Make certain all connections at battery bank and chassis frame ground are clean and tight. The same for main cable fuses or circuit breaker connection points. Let us know what you find.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:37 PM   #3
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After charging what was the voltage on the your house & chassis batteries?
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:02 AM   #4
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quick update
remove chassie batteries-charged
reinstalled chassie batteries coach now starts.
Coach batteries will not charge via Prosine. Sys shut down Fault code 207
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:49 AM   #5
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RE: Chassis batteries charging off the prosine: Some do, (mine does) some don't. There is a product or two, Xantrex Echo Charge (more expensive) or Trick-l-start (Less expensive) that adds the feature to the coach, simple 3 wire hookup.

As for R&R the battery fixing it.. I have the same problem. dirty connections at the battery,, I crawl under every couple of years and clean and polish and it's like I put a new battery in once again.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:30 PM   #6
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Start batteries may need own charger...

Cannot help on how your coach should work, we can assume CC would have a unit that floats all batteries but many systems do not charge the starting batteries from shore or generator power.

Stupid question...how long had the coach been standing?

If real long time then normal "self discharge" may be only fault, but this only if no charger is present.

If less than a couple weeks since engine was running and it was running long enough to charge up the batteries a bit, then you may have parasitic loads or a shorted cell in a battery, search "parasitic loads" or "battery problems" for tons of information on those.

None of this may apply in your case, but may help others with older units.

To check is simple enough, assuming you have not found correct information online or in your manual, turn OFF all disconnects, then disconnect the starting battery and measure the voltage on the wire to chassis ground, with shore power plugged in or generator running if a voltage is present, and above 13 then the batteries may be charged, if not then no charge.

While disconnected measure any current, place amp meter between wire and battery, if there is something left on, it will show a current drain, this could discharge the battery, confirm any drains found are normal, repair those that are not.

Once that is normal, if there is no on-board charger for the starting batteries the fix is simple, there are many different "battery maintainer" devices on the market.

From real cheap to real expensive, and there is zero need for fancy stuff here as the battery only starts the engine.

All that is required is enough current to float the battery and the abiity to control the charge voltage.

To avoid overcharging look for a unit that the maximum output does not exceed 1% of the amp hour rating of the batteries.

If you have standard starting batteries, then a normal automotive unit should alrady have the voltage regulator perfect for the battery.

If you have 2 8D starting batteries, then about 4 to 5 amps is the maximum, most like what is at Harbor Freight only have a capacity of 1 to 2 amps, so if they get stupid you are still safe.

We added 2 different Harbor Freight maintainers to our coach, they have a cord>>>box>>>cord>>>box>>>wires with Clips construction.

The larger one is for automotive use, puts out a higher current, we use it for the cabin batteries to compensate for lights and other things while parked in storage while the smaller unit is for yard equipment, designed for smaller batteries, still floats the 2*8D batteries just fine and no worry about overcharging due to the small unit not being able to output enough current to do so.

Locate an under coach outlet or add one, we added an outlet in the engine compartment near the battery isolator.

The isolator gives you a single place where you can provide charging current to both battery systems, make the connection on the battery side to keep everything correct.

Both units were hard mounted but still plug in, the larger one was connected to the cabin batteries, the smaller one connected to the starting batteries, for us this works out, your needs may differ.

Our coach as a fero-resonant type converter, it draws 5 amps idle (600 watts) and is slightly high on charging voltage, it is expensive to simply float charge the batteries, plus with a slight high voltage tends to overcharge the batteries.

While in storage we turn off the breaker for the converter and all is well, if on a trip the converter is used.

The connections were made at the isolator, simple to do with no wiring modifications.

Your mileage and results may vary...
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:48 PM   #7
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I would think if you have the more expensive Xantrex Prosine you may also have the optional echo charge unit. My chassis batteries would not charge on shore power either. Turned out to be a faulty echo charge unit. Replaced it and everything works well now.

JR
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:54 AM   #8
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On your CC there should be an Echo Charger, most likely mounted to the bay compartment next to the inverter. It will have LED's indicating status.

If it doesn't charge that can be due to a number of causes ranging from an original mis-wiring from the factory to too great of a voltage difference between your chassis & house battery to just a blown fuse.

On the echo charger if the voltage difference is more than 2 VDC it will NOT charge the chassis battery.

The echo charger has 2 glass in-line fuses...very easy to break when you open the fuse holders.

Ours "slowly" failed, meaing that one of the fuses would blow on occassion and then eventually the echo charger failed. We replaced the charger with a Magnum equivalent which is a much better unit and actually cheaper.

I've got some info on this on my blog at An RV Life | Xantrex Digital Echo Charger Failed and An RV Life | Magnum Secondary Battery Charger - Learned something today
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:35 PM   #9
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Coach Wont Start

Techie,

If the Posine shows a system "Shut down Fault 207" Would the Echo Charger even work?
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:39 PM   #10
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Don't know with regard to that fault code. The echo charger works off of the charger output and also checks the battery bank battery level so it may.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:48 AM   #11
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New update,

Checked last night Coach would not start. Put charger on and we will see
tonight.

Prosine still shows System Shut down, but now Fault Code is 195

Hope someone has some ideas.

Terrt
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:07 PM   #12
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I found the manual online @ Xantrex, Appendic C has the fault codes. A link to the document is http://xantrex.com/documents/Inverte...-01_Rev-A).pdf

Code 195 is listed as
195 Internal DC bus voltage is
low in Charge mode
1 There may be a hot to
ground wiring error. A mistake
made in AC wiring
caused internal traces to
open. Shoring the AC line to
the chassis ground occasionally
causes damage especially
if supplied from a 50 A
service with a short cord.
2 Internal fault
1. Contact Xantrex and
return unit for repair.
2. Record the error code
and contact Xantrex.

Code 207 is listed as
207 Internal DC Bus voltage is
low in invert mode.
1. Temporary condition
caused by low battery voltage
in conjunction with an
overload condition.
2. Internal Fault.
1. Check if battery is OK
(see error code 002). Disconnect
AC and DC
power to the Prosine.
Reconnect DC and AC
power after 15 minutes. If
the problem persists, contact
Xantrex.
2. Record the error code
and contact Xantrex.

Hope that this helps.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:11 PM   #13
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Techie,

thanks, but i have the manual and have contacted Xantrex-no help as unit is not made or serviced any more.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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Bad battery or wiring

It looks as if you have a bad battery.

You stated that you removed the batteries, charged them and the coach started, but after some time you could not start the coach.

Either batteries do not hold a charge or a parasitic load exists.

If you do not have the ability to measure loads via an ampmeter, go get one, they are cheap.

Make sure it can measure 10 amps DC.

Search here for instructions on how to measure loads and test batteries.

You can repeat your test, charge batteries, start engine, but now disconnect batteries and wait a few days, reconnect, if coach starts then battries may not be bad, may not be good either but you have determined a parasitic load exists that is draining the batteries.

Your coach is 2007, if batteries are factory they are likely bad.

Have them tested by a reliable dealer and replace if needed.
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