Considering 2006 CC Allure 430 Quad slide over Newmar

[Racing4Fun]

Thanks. The wind detector leak/ceiling repair that happened while coach was in our driveway - insurance has approved. It is a small fraction of the overall repairs but it’s something.
We will proceed with repairs today and work to get Newmar sold. Hopefully it will be worth it in the end and we can love the new rig again. We are not budgeting anything from the previous owners but we will reach out. Doesn’t hurt.
Appreciate the insights.

[Racing4Fun]

Well - we were going to fix this CC until this Thursday when the shop discovered this delam is not from your typical leak around seams. In fact there were no signs of a leak. Instead, the interior frame is rusting from heating and cooling cycles in the MH. In fact the fiber board did not detach from the styrene or fiber glass. It was detaching from the frame. The frame in the wall is almost rusted through. The shop says there is absolutely no protective coating on the steel and it just rusts due to condensation. Really a manufacturing defect. For all of you who said these coaches have great bones - think again.

So, this is the end of the road for this RV. She was a beauty when we saw her the first time, but little did we know she had terminal cancer that no one could have seen. We did try to go back to previous owners - no reply - no acknowledgement.

Our insurance is going to look at because what happened is not excluded - however, it’s certainly a long shot. We also have another insurance to cover the gap in the loan after sale to a Salvage Yard. They will look at as well. Crossing our fingers for any help at all here.

Some might say - well put it back together and trade it! I don’t have a conscience that could do that. I don’t want anyone else to end up with this unit ever and have to go through what we have. If we do, we will be transparent about what is wrong with it.

We have only owned this RV for 2 months and never got to use it and we are going to lose 10000s.

Very sad ending to what should have been fun.

So long Country Coach Owners and no we would never buy another one. We are going to stick with our Newmar which we never got time to sell. It will have to serve us well (which it has for 10 years) and at least it’s frame is aluminum with hung walls!

[Mr_D]

Oh, just WOW. Never would have thought about the frame work rusting from the inside. And I've never seen and complaints about it.
Have you taken any pictures that you could share?
Maybe I should have kept my '02 DSDP!

[Racing4Fun]

The repair shop thinks this goes all the way down. Sad.

[smlranger]

Wow. Certainly feel bad for you but this also should give us all an uneasy feeling about our coaches. CC was one who touted their steel wall structure as stronger than competitor's aluminum framing. Blue Bird also used steel but they used stainless steel in their framing.


If they did not put some type of protective coating on the wall studs before laminating the walls, condensation that might form in the walls could certainly cause this.



That said, I don't recall reading many threads about sidewall delamination being a big issue with CC's. So begs the questions.....1. is this coach a very rare exception and/or 2. did something change in the production process in the later years that contributed to this?

[Smitty77]

X's 2 on the sorry this happened. I've followed the thread, and went back to make sure I had not mixed up this coach with another (The danger of too many RV related Forum's being read!).

It really does not matter now, how you got to where you are. It happened. It could help others, and yourself if you shop again, to pay for a qualified tech to pre-inspect a coach before purchase. I also, paid Cummins Cal Pacific do a full review of my ISL, as well as Dyno Tested it, before purchase. Pulled samples too. All together, spent about $1K for inspection, and Cummins, and lab analysis.

On the final straw, the rusted metal frame. Going back to the ceiling, would make me think this could be a 'cause & effect' situation. Leaking water is never good for any RV, no question about that. Proper renovation and repairing in a timely manner, are vital to stop 'effect' from growing. Suspect water leakage from the roofline, is the 'cause' of your rusted frame.

I also would now wonder just how 'nice' that previous owner was. The one that had taken such good care of the coach, and spent the time walking you thru it so long. Had to have known, as you seemed to have, about the ceiling leaking(?). Did not properly repair it. And, did not do due diligence to ensure no other damage occurred. Another red flag, always easier in hindsight, was the replacement of the front carpet with tile(?). Curious if the current shop can see the condition of the wood flooring under the tile? Was it properly repaired, or just tiled laid over a possibly damaged wood flooring?

What part of the country was this purchased from? Areas where flooding may have taken place?

Did, or can you, validate the ownership period of the seller? Are you confident he had this 'well taken care of' coach for the period of time he said? Didn't the Hydro Hot also act up on you soon after purchase too(?). (Sorry, not going to read all of the threads again, but think that was another 'discovery' soon after purchase.

If upon reflection, you feel their is any doubt of the integrity of the information the seller told you, or neglected to tell you, about this RV. Perhaps you'd have some room on legal matters against him. But, as I believe has been mentioned in this thread, maybe even by me(?) - buyer beware, on most used purchases.

Again. Not trying to kick you when you guys are $$ down on this. Really do feel for you. But I have very minor concerns (Actually, none.) about rusting metal framing being a blight on CC's. I saw an Intrigue, believe it was an 03 with ISL, being repaired from an accident, and the metal frame was exposed in the area being worked on. No evidence of any rusting on the exposed support frames. And this was a Washington State based coach, with the Olympic Peninsula moisture. (Seen at OMC, during our last stop.).

I believe you started this thread because the layout of the DS and handling, were not what you felt you wanted in retirement. Newmar DS of that era, are fine coaches (Were on our short list too.). So if you can adapt/upgrade it to meet your needs, why not? Handling? Believe the DS had the ISL370 (Maybe 400, but think it was 370 to separate it from the MA(?). And either had stock, or optional, a Spartan chassis. Should be a nice handling rig, sure without tag, not as stable as a tag'd coach, but still nice handling. Working with say Source Engineering, Henderson's Line Up, Brazel's - to name a few shops - you should be able to sort out your handling problems and for sure improve them(?). I see nothing wrong in your thinking of upgrading your DS to what you want it to be. (Other then the Layout, is hard to change too much(:!).

Where you are right now, is in a financial hole from this lemon you ended up with. Again, doesn't matter how you got to where you are... Stopping the feeding, and determining the best way to proceed from here - is the best things for your stress/health. (Maybe sell it 'as is' as a project for someone who wants to do some sweat equity building?). Or, put it on E-Bay for salvage(?).

Sorry this CC did not work out for you. But, I stand behind my ongoing recommendation that older CC's are worth considering. As I do when I also list Newmar, Monaco, Apline, Travel Supreme, Beaver, etc. - to others too. I usually recommend buying as high up the food chain of a builder as possible, and dropping years to remain within budget. Keeping some budget for modifications and upgrades and catchup maintenance - to make it the new buyer's coach.

All my best to you, and feel your pain...
Smitty

[smlranger]

Smitty, thanks for the comments. If this was a common issue with CC's, I am sure it would have been raised by others on forums. Looking again at the pics, the rust seems worse in certain areas but the steel looks fairly clean in others. That would suggest, to me, a leak over time.


I know when my driver's window was pulled for repair, it was obvious there had been a leak from window onto the metal framing (leak was at top so frame was rusted at top and along front edge). I looked at the wall and both the exterior and interior walls were still stuck fast to the steel. CC cleaned up the rust and used POR15 then reinstalled the window.


I feel so bad for the OP. I would be sick for sure.

[Racing4Fun]

All,

There is rust on all of the steel there in that photo - not easy to see - some areas definitely worse than others. The reason the shop stopped is they suspect it goes through the whole coach.

I know you can all speculate on what happened as can we.

However, there were no signs of WATER damage in this wall. Yes there is rust but the wood did not have the tell tale signs of a water leak and was not damaged. This is not the first time this shop has opened up a wall of a CC. They use to do a lot of warranty work for CC in the day. Yes this is the worst he has seen. He says there is absolutely no paint on that steel. He works on these CCs regularly - normally they are painted. Repair shop said that CC was in trouble starting in 04/05. It seems they may have cut corners. Maybe this is a corner they cut to save money - don’t paint!

Everyone can keep telling us we should have had full objective inspection. I get it. We tried. Even the shop it’s at didn’t come up in our search. We couldn’t find anyone in this area other than someone who was an Auto Tech. Sorry but not the same and my husband is a high end Auto Tech and owns his own restoration shop. But of course I agree you should get someone with experience - no doubt. In hindsight when I saw the spot I thought might be delam - I should of said - we need another opinion. NO one would have known there was rust in the walls and that the metal was not painted. I can should coulda woulda myself all day and we have been.

Anyway it’s done and we have to figure out best next step. We will wait for both insurance companies answers and posting on eBay is a good idea.

Thank you for the thoughts and yes I hope this story can help someone else in the future not get into this same situation.

[rampowerwago]

WOW! I've followed this from the begining and am truely shocked. I feel terrible for you and know if I was in the same situation that this would tear me apart.

We are thinking about a used high end coach, but stories like yours cause me to pause and reconsider.

[bneukam]

Sorry for the bad news. Just goes to show RV’s are not designed for full time living. Outside air will condensate on the steel as it’s being heated from the inside. Yes, if the steel would have been painted it would have slowed down the rust, but it will still eventually delaminate regardless if its aluminum, or steel. Because the moisture will still break down the luan.

[Racing4Fun]

Just wanted to let everyone know we continued to investigate this thru folks on the west coast. What we found is CC never painted the upper frames in the wall. We have concluded thru multiple sources that the delam issues on the sidewall were likely due to lack of maintenance by previous owner of the coach period. No manufacturers defect at all. So for those with CCs just keep up the seal maintenance on your coaches and hopefully no issue. if we were closer to Oregon we would probably get it fixed but we aren’t. We will sell.

Additionally we investigated the floor under the slide and what we’ve found is it’s not too thick and should be workable. Using slide slickers would help.

We are on to our next journey. Thanks everyone for your support on this. Many lessons learned.

[oldeguy]

Racin4fun, just read this thread on your RV issues on this coach. WOW! It's hard to believe an upper-end builder would do that to an upper-end coach. Shame on you the manufacturer! My first question to you is...could a professional inspection of this couch found/uncovered the depth of the rust and other issues with this coach? Next question is how much better this coach drove vs old coach. Do you feel it was because of the tag axle, length, chassis design? Really sorry that you've had such a bad experience with this coach...
My reasons for asking these questions is I'm looking to buy a 2005-7'ish diesel pusher. Never have driven one and want to have something that handles crosswinds and Semi traffic like my dully pullen my 38ft 5th wheel. Thanks

[Smitty77]

Racin4fun - Thanks for the update, and sorry this one hit you so hard!!! And like the attitude of movin onto a new adventure.

And great advice about normal maintenance being so important - for any coach - as a water leak left leaking, will reck havoc on any coach (Entry, Mid or Top Level).

Watched a mid 2000's, think it was 2006, Intrigue being worked on last year. The seal along the top of the passenger side awning had not been maintained, and water had leaked long enough to work it's way down thru the side. Delam, and wood rot in places. Talking to the repair place, they estimated about a $17-20K total repair, depending on what they fund once the stripped off the outside fiberglass. That same trip, went to visit a friend, who's Father In Law was just going to pick up his Monaco Executive, for a similar long undetected water leak damage. $48K, but this included some interior custom mod's, and a full paint job too.

Any RV, left to water leaks into the innards - could have a problem.

Best of luck to you both ahead, and I do hope you find another coach and get out and have a blast!

Smitty

[Racing4Fun]

No I don’t think inspection would have picked up full extent. Do I think a very knowledgeable inspector would know it had delam yes possible.