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Old 08-23-2014, 11:23 AM   #15
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Wow...the great replies keep coming. Thanks. Please see comments below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smlranger View Post
Our '07 Allure is nearly all electric with the exception of the gas cooktop which we prefer. Residential fridge, bigger inverter, more batteries.

My wife loves gas but is willing to consider an electric cook-top...the verdict is still out on this one and may be decided by what coach with the right features comes along first. I guess you could say it isn't on our "Must Have" list right now.

We also shopped for a coach with good bones instead of more 'fu fu'. We have IFS, heated tile floors, aqua hot, HDTV's, built in surge protection, energy management system, 15KBTU roof heat pumps, four slides, beautiful cheery cabinetry, Corian counters, and a solid foundation on top of all that. We don't have an outside TV (didn't want one) or the ever popular bath and 1/2 option on many newer DP's. We also wanted to avoid the DEF issue so just squeaked in with a 2007 clean diesel that uses a DPF and no DEF. I do miss the more aggressive sound of my previous DP with a CAT and a Magnaflow muffler. This Cummins with the DPF is a bit too civilized for a guy who grew up in the muscle car era .

Your list is pretty much our list except for the outside TV...this is an option that is going to be relatively high on my list. We aren't couch potatoes but we have a TV out on our patio and I love to watch sports out there. I realize the noise issues in a camp ground (had a huge discussion about this over at Escapees recently) but is something I will be looking for in our rig.

Regarding the 1 1/2 baths...I like the idea but my wife does not want to give up the floor space (seems to always come out of the kitchen) nor the storage.

It seems the newer coaches have the 'frameless' windows which look sleek but they only seem to open at the bottom and hinge up a bit. We prefer the framed windows that slide open sideways to get more ventilation. I can say that we are pleased to have this coach with all its features and its quality of construction at a fraction of the cost of a new one.

To be honest I haven't paid too much attention to this yet...something else to add to my list to study but not certain how much weight I will put on it.

Like many of the others here, we are 'refreshing' a few interior things... we replaced both sofas with a double recliner and a more pleasing sofa bed. We are changing out the polished brass hardware to brushed nickel and will replace the carpet this winter. We changed all the halogen bulbs to LED's. The only exterior upgrade will be to install a window awning over the passenger side LR slide windows. When it is too windy for the main awning to be out, we would still like to provide shade for those two windows.

Two recliners is a must for us which might mean doing our own furniture shuffle and modifications. I want a coach with the flat screen on a side wall that can be electrically raised and lowered with a fold-out couch in front of it. That feature is available on the Newmars and I'm certain my son (excellent wood worker) and I could tackle the project. Our last three houses have had brushed nickel pulls, fixtures, door knobs, etc. and we still aren't tired of it.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becks View Post
Like smlranger, we bought a high end used coach and have upgraded it a lot. MCD shades throughout, res fridge, new leather couches, led lights. Past owner had already installed four led TV's. Will do new flooring next. Good luck shopping.
Thank you. We are currently in research mode but will become active shoppers/buyers in late 2015...can't wait!
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:38 AM   #17
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Larry - Changing over to Pure Sine Wave for us was pretty easy. It's not just the Inverter, it's also all of the other components that go with it too. (Control Panels, Battery Management, etc.) We were able to use the same harness of wires that went from the front of the coach to the rear area where our Inverter is (most are as close to the battery bank as possible.) So that saved some labor hours.

Nothing was wrong with the Modified Sine Wave that was installed by CC. It was a good quality 2000W unit, with good options with the RC7 Remote Panel too. I was going to Lifeline AGM batteries, and wanted to have the ability to have a custom setting for the charging phases. Plus, I'm a HiFi junky, and wanted to feed the higher end audio gear with PSW vs MSW. We did go to a Magnum 2800W size PSW, to allow for the extra electronics of the HiFi, and if we do decide to go to residential fridge, we can feed that easily.

Overall, this is not a complicated change out, it's also in the lower 1/2 of the cost spectrum for coach mods....

I also wanted to acknowledge Southpark's post and his thought process. Matches many of my own thoughts. (Though I would add Wanderlodge to his list of older good foundation rigs to consider.)

I like your research approach, and hope you both have fun on your search.
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #18
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Thanks...another great reply. Please see below for comments.

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Originally Posted by Southpark View Post
It doesn't cover other makers and newer years, but at least this will allow you to see when things were introduced in the CC lines over the years:

Model History | Damon Rapozo

Thanks...I have seen this and have been studying the things that have been added to the Magnas and Affinitys each year.

I agree with those who focus on the foundation. Many things that are superficial can be changed relatively easily and inexpensively (I use the term inexpensively here relative for what is inexpensive in the motorhome world, not as an absolute concept). But certain foundational things you'll be stuck with, e.g. whether or not the coach has Aqua-Hot; was made with a steel framed house welded to the chassis so the whole unit works together to make the entire coach stiff with reduced creaks and squeaks and more structural integrity or just an aluminum house bolted to the chassis; has two large inboard airbags per axel that may allow more sway than you're comfortable with, or has multiple smaller bags positioned more outboard that may give you better handling and control, etc.

I'll have to research the airbag set-ups. Does CC have the multiple, smaller airbags as you mention or does it depend on the year/model?

For me, I am not confident that the emissions system complexity of newer engines wouldn't be a long-term nightmare. And I wouldn't want a rig that has an inferior chassis and engine combination just because the floor plan seems great. Then again, we're not at a stage where we go to one place and park for six months so how things drive is a big deal for us.

Might be wrong-headed on my part but one of the first things that drew me to Country Coach was that I could get a very nice coach with a high hp engine. I am not looking to be "King of the Campground for HP" but I have read too many stories about people's beautiful but heavy rigs and how when they get into any hilly or mountainous terrain that their engines are undersized.

Regardless of engine emissions systems, the only new coaches being made that satisfy my chassis desires/requirements are Prevost conversions, Newells, and Foretravels. I am of the opinion that Foretravel is probably king of the quality-price nexus.

In the used market, the coaches that qualify for what I consider to be solid foundations include Prevost conversions, Newells, Foretravels, Country Coaches, and Monaco products built on their S-Series chassis (including high-line Beavers and HR Navigator) (though recently someone had an issue with a critical circuit board on a Monaco product that they were having trouble finding a replacement or repair, which clouds them as a safe option since while they still make Monaco coaches, they are not the same and no longer made on the great Roadmaster chassis.). And, I may as well point out, the only Newells and Prevosts I've liked are still new enough to be out of what I consider a reasonable (for me) price range.

I haven't really researched any of the Monaco products (I should do that to make sure I am covering all bases) and I'm afraid that the Newells and Prevosts will have to wait a different lifetime for me.

Thus, it comes down to Foretravel and Country Coach. Frankly, I think Foretravels are the better product. But to find something comparable in style, features, engine, etc., you're looking at the Nimbus, Phenix, or newer Foretravels. It sounds to me that you're looking for as big and comfortable as you can find. That means four slides and 45' long. That means the Nimbus is out IIRC. And any nice Phenix you find could be $100,000 to $200,000 more than a comparable Country Coach.

You are correct...after many years of being on Escapees and recently here, we have gotten over the concern that we would be very limited in where we could park our rig if we got something over 36' (this used to be the absolute longest rig I was willing to consider). And, as mentioned above, I am looking for a higher HP engine. We haven't completely made up our mind on slides yet but it will certainly be at least three. An additional $100K-$200K would definitely put us past what we want to spend to go full-timing. I would love to have what that extra money would buy but we are already anticipating spending a lot more than we ever thought we would.

Our last two homes (DC area and here in the Houston area) are more expensive than what we will pay for our coach but even a used Country Coach will cost more than three other homes we have previously owned...in fact, more than the combined total of any two of them. The price we are discussing spending is still kind of mind boggling but we are not going to hit the road in anything that is not substantially built or that is lacking in the creature comforts that we have come to enjoy.


Which makes Country Coach a really great deal in my opinion. I would look for a 2005-2008 Magna or Affinity. Look at this great deal on a west coast (fewer corrosion issues, generally) Magna: 2006¬*Country Coach¬*Magna Rembrandt w/4 Slides¬*listed on RVOnline.com -RVs for Sale

We are interested in the Magna and the Affinity and will look at any of the years you mentioned but are going to try to find something 2007-2008.


And keep in mind that at some point every company seems to have made a dog, so don't let one bad story get you down. And when people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for something they often tell you it's great. So don't be swayed by a bunch of happy stories either!

I always try to keep that in mind (although difficult sometimes). I had one person send me an email who had a CC with issues and ended up selling it. They had a few critical (but possibly very truthful comments) about the current ownership of CC, warranty work, their belief that the quality declined in the final years, etc. They sold their CC and bought something else that they said they are very happy with.

Try to drive a lot of rigs if you can. Maybe you'll not notice a difference in ride and one of the non-custom chassis may be good enough for you. If I were forced to pick between Spartan and Freightliner, by the way, I would choose Spartan.

And in new construction coaches with non-custom chassis I would probably tend towards Entegra now that American Coach is going Freightliner.

There are a lot of things about the Entegra that we like including the Spartan frame but they do not have a single floorplan that we like. Newmar does and I am sure I would love the Comfort Steer but, except for their expensive King Aire and Essex, are all on Freightliner frames and not Spartans.

But for the same money or less I would much prefer a used Foretravel or Country Coach rather than any of the new coaches coming out today other than Prevost, Newell, and Foretravel.

My guess is that most people that consider themselves "drivers" would feel the same way. Those other coaches just don't ride as solid and quiet. Especially as the years go by. There really is a big difference with a house built with a steel frame welded to the chassis.

On the other hand, there are many, many, people who prefer shiny and new. Or find the floorplan to be paramount. Or don't care that the walls are not vacuum-bonded (one very popular coach builder doesn't vacu-bond its walls, even on its highest line). So you're mileage may vary.

As full-timers all of the above will be important including floor plan. If we were part-timing or using it for vacations there is probably not a single luxury DP floor plan we would have an issue with as long as we could get to the fridge and the bathroom when the slides were in. So, quality of construction and engine size are must-haves and layout only a tick below that.

Hope this perspective helps in some fashion. Good luck in your search.

Very helpful...thank you very much!
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #19
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Thanks for your reply...please see below comments.

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Southport makes some great points about overall coach construction. Being totally honest about it, many folks just don't know about, care about, or investigate construction of RV's and go for the glitz. And likely, many of those own and enjoy a more cheaply made RV for years and that works for them. However, some of us are more particular about what we drive.

I have always tried to buy the best that money could buy. My wife early on learned that about me when I bought tools. Just about every quality tool that I have bought throughout our marriage (will be celebrating our 36th anniversary soon) is still in service out in my garage. Admittedly, we have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to a DP but, from what I am reading and learning, drawing that line at Country Coach is far from the worst thing we could ever do.

A good example of cheaper coach construction was my previous coach, a Winnebago Journey DP. Overall, considering what I paid for it and recognizing it was an entry-level DP, it was a good coach. However, I was always tightening things. The side walls were screwed to the floor.... actually using sheet metal screws put in from the side. The screws were not very large or long (maybe #8 self drilling). Many of them were snapped off during construction. One entire sidewall started to separate from the floor at the bottom. I noticed a bow in the wall at the bottom, went inside and looked down and could see a 1/2" gap. I had to remove all the beltline trim to get to the hundreds of screws. I removed those that were not broken off, put loctite on them and added many new screws. The coach had lots of rattles and squeaks. I don't know if Winnebago still makes them that way but I suspect they do. Big difference between that type of construction and steel frames welded to the main frame.

All very good points (and unfortunately, experiences) that is keeping me asking questions and trying to get as many answers as I can from those out there that have already learned from the "School of Hard Knocks."

I appreciate the time and effort from those of you that have sat down and replied with very informative and thoughtful posts. Thank you!
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:28 PM   #20
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Just a quick note: The 45-foot Allure has a pull-out kitchen counter.
Also RVingplanet has information and specs on 2009 CCs, including floorplans.
Appreciate your service--I spent 34 years in USAF.
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Old 08-23-2014, 01:35 PM   #21
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One comment about the age/years of coaches you are looking into. I'm not up on CAT's as much as I am on Cummins. But, suggest you research the year change points of when CAT had to make significant changes to meet every shifting rules on added smog stuff. (The real reason they left OTR when they did, is the heavy costs of designing and certification of the engines did not amortize out over enough years between other big changes but the government. Not a CAT ding, IMO a ding to Government not getting their act together.)

Also IMO, I'd rather have an older era CAT with less smot stuff on it, then a newer engine. But CAT Power Train section research can see if my opinion has merit! I also would ask specifically what trans is the era of coach you are looking at. If Allison 4000, great. If the CAT trans attached with the BIG BLOCK CAT, I'd do more research on this transmission. Determine if you feel it is what you want trans wise. (No question that CAT will support this, as they are rock solid behind their products. But finding shops that are familiar with this trans will not be as easy as the Allison 4000 series.)

On budget and age of coach. We could have within reason afforded $400-600K range coach. But, we have pretty simple tastes on interior designs, and wanted less things to go wrong over the years. So we researched a balance between goodies levels being a bit lower, while still maintaining a solid foundation with chassis and engine. We also budgeted a good size of coin for the ongoing interior and refresh that we've been doing. Still, well under the $150K level when we complete this process.

I IFS era Affinity, or Magna, could drop you down into the I think the 2001 level. We don't worry about age, as long as the foundation meets out needs. With time, a well kept garage parked 2001-2004/6 era coach maybe found, and worth looking into.

But, that's my way of thinking. It's your pocket books, and what matters is what you two want!

Best,
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:00 PM   #22
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Just a quick note: The 45-foot Allure has a pull-out kitchen counter.
Also RVingplanet has information and specs on 2009 CCs, including floorplans.
Appreciate your service--I spent 34 years in USAF.
Thanks for the info on the pull-out and also the RVingplanet lead.

Thank you for your many years of service too!
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:27 PM   #23
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Thanks again...see comments below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
One comment about the age/years of coaches you are looking into. I'm not up on CAT's as much as I am on Cummins. But, suggest you research the year change points of when CAT had to make significant changes to meet every shifting rules on added smog stuff. (The real reason they left OTR when they did, is the heavy costs of designing and certification of the engines did not amortize out over enough years between other big changes but the government. Not a CAT ding, IMO a ding to Government not getting their act together.)

Also IMO, I'd rather have an older era CAT with less smot stuff on it, then a newer engine. But CAT Power Train section research can see if my opinion has merit! I also would ask specifically what trans is the era of coach you are looking at. If Allison 4000, great. If the CAT trans attached with the BIG BLOCK CAT, I'd do more research on this transmission. Determine if you feel it is what you want trans wise. (No question that CAT will support this, as they are rock solid behind their products. But finding shops that are familiar with this trans will not be as easy as the Allison 4000 series.)

Cummins vs. Cats...I have dealt with both of these manufacturers (albeit marine application) and have pros and cons with both. More things to add to my research as I am not as up to speed on OTR application as I should be. My spreadsheet may end up a little unwieldy with all this great info if I don't modify it. I might create a new spreadsheet for each model and do separate sheets in each for systems to keep better track of specific info.

On budget and age of coach. We could have within reason afforded $400-600K range coach. But, we have pretty simple tastes on interior designs, and wanted less things to go wrong over the years. So we researched a balance between goodies levels being a bit lower, while still maintaining a solid foundation with chassis and engine. We also budgeted a good size of coin for the ongoing interior and refresh that we've been doing. Still, well under the $150K level when we complete this process.

I IFS era Affinity, or Magna, could drop you down into the I think the 2001 level. We don't worry about age, as long as the foundation meets out needs. With time, a well kept garage parked 2001-2004/6 era coach maybe found, and worth looking into.

We are trying to stay below $375 ($400K tops) and that includes money for any upgrades or mods we want to do. Less is always better so we have set a high figure but are not absolutely committed to spending that much if we find a greater value. We are not afraid to do a lot of the work ourselves so are also willing to take on a coach for a good deal that just needs time and attention.

Good things to keep in mind. We have certain entering parameters but remain open to change as we get more info and hopefully a little smarter.

But, that's my way of thinking. It's your pocket books, and what matters is what you two want!

Best,
Smitty
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:38 AM   #24
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I also posted this under your CC Yahoo User thread too. But I did think of some of the newer mid to higher end coaches are now including USB Charging Points in different parts of the coaches.

Not a major item, but a good example of how newer rigs adapted to newer technology usage.

Best to all,
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:05 PM   #25
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LJ - I read this thread just now and did not see anywhere that your question about number of airbags on Country Coaches had been answered. Our CC coach has 10 airbags. The number varies by year and model.

I would also suggest that CAT may have not wanted to deal with the repeated changes the Federal and State governments are making with emissions for OTR trucks. California from what I can see is at the forefront of repeated changes. Both Cummins and CAT make good motors. Some better than others. Our CAT motor has been quite good. The Allison trans on the other hand needed to be replaced due to a "known weakness" two years ago. The quote is from the Allison rebuilder and not Allison. Fortunately we still have extended warranty when the trans blew.

I enjoyed the general write up about coaches and always felt a monocoque type chassis for coaches was a more rigid platform, plus much safer.

Smitty's comments about the bolts holding the body on sent shivers down my spine. I have made a mental note to never buy a coach constructed like that.

We are very happy with the way our coach drives and operates in general. We have upgraded a bunch of stuff on our coach. One thing we have not touched though is the two inverters. We have 2 Heart Freedom 25 2,500 watt inverters. These are modified sign wave. So far in five years I have not found anything that does not run with them. We have flat screen TV, several types of computers, many electrical gadgets. All work fine with these inverters. I do think I am going to have Country Coach put in an electric push up device on our flat screen next summer though. We have been buggered to figure out where to put a flat screen in a place we want to view it. I hate the up high ones. We just set ours on the desk when parked. An electronic trap door on the back of the desk sounds like the Cat's me ow to me.

Something everyone should get if they are buying a Country Coach that I love is well made sliding basement storage. We have really sturdy big trays on two storage bays. I love that set up.
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Old 08-26-2014, 02:51 PM   #26
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Just a quick reply, (I hope). My wife and I decided that we were if not full time, spend a lot of time on the road after we retired. This will be in the next 5-7 years. I just started looking around, not really knowing anything. In fact, the last time I camped was in a pup tent when I was 16 (54 now). Ok, small lie. I've had boats since I was 16 and the last, 31' that we weekended in a lot. So I wasn't foreign to some of the "house" systems. Back on track now.... I saw a really nice Class A in our local Chevy dealer lot. Asked a few questions. It belonged to the owner of the dealership. He had died the previous year from cancer. His wife didn't want the bus. Turned out to be a 2006 42' CC Magna 630 VanGogh, 7k miles. The price had just been lowered by $45k. Started to do some research and found the current asking price was very reasonable for that year and make. When I checked it out I was extremely impressed with the build quality. Just the attention to detail and fit and finish. The more research i did the more I realized I had myself a high end coach. The deal was too good to pass up. So instead of buying new 5 years from now we bought used. Consider me in pre-retirement mode. So far I am truly in love with this bus. We've only had it for about 5 months now so we are totally new at this as well. I'll keep you posted if you like as my experience mounts. I don't regret my decision at this point!
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Old 08-26-2014, 03:45 PM   #27
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Congratulations, stratman, I'm sure you will get a lot of enjoyment out of it!
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Old 08-26-2014, 04:14 PM   #28
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Congrats Stratman, you made a good choice, and sounds like you got a good buy as well. Enjoy.
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