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Smitty77 · 10-21-2014, 08:19 AM

We had our front heat register squirril cage go out, after much noise over a few months of use. We were having other work done on the coach, and the tech said he had one of the newer replacements for this same unit, so we told him to go ahead and replace it.

We used it for about 10 minutes after we picked up the coach, and it ran fine, and quiet. Was not used again until about three months later, where it ran fine off and on for about 4 hours.

Now it does not come on, only the register beneath the kitchen is running.

Any suggestions on what to look for? My books and manuals, are of course, not with me... Any fuses or inline fuses available? If low on fluids, would the front register's fan know not to kick on? (Though the Hydro Hot fluids all seem fine. Thought maybe an air bubble some how got in the line by the small amount of fluids lost while the register was being replaced?)

I have a call into the tech that did the work, a nice and thorough gentlemen. He will be back in on Wednesday, and they'll have him return my call then.

But figured you guys have been thru these quite a few times. (I saw Gary's great fan swap out. And I will do these on our remaining stock fans when the coach is back home and parked for awhile. I like the idea of quieter fans. Will probably just go to Fry's, as I found a very quiet higher CFM pancake fan for behind the Norcold. Should be able to attach two of these the same way as the kit from Roger works.)

Tia,
Smitty

04 Allure

smlranger · 10-21-2014, 08:30 PM

Smitty, on my Allure there is one 20 amp fuse for all four of my heat exchangers. Perhaps your coach has a separate fuse for that front exchanger fan. Other than a separate fuse, I cannot think of a reason why that fan would not run while all the others do. Unless, of course, there is a loose connection or perhaps that motor has failed.

The exchanger behind the dash is the only one I did not upgrade. It still has the OEM squirrel cage fan but is not nearly as noisy as the others were. Plus, I did not want to pull the dash apart until I really had to do that.

Smitty77 · 10-28-2014, 10:26 PM

Not completely resolved yet, but I'll update as of now.

The Hydro Hot in our era coach, have two 12v/20a relays mounted down next to the Master Control board in the basement next to the boiler. One relay for each zone. The fact that the the second registers fan in the kitchen was getting power, indicated that the relay was in good shape.

I pulled the fan box off of the new register. Removed one of the fans form the box, and found the positive where they split to send power to each fan had probably never been connected properly in assembly. It was hanging loose. I have not tested the other fan yet, but will in the AM, after a visit to a hard ware store for more finite electrical connections and fittings. (All of mine in my RV tool box are too large for this small of gage wire.) I'll also get a small soldering iron for the RV tool kit too.

The shop that installed this register with the two pancake fans, said to let them know if this repair does not take care of it. They'll coordinate a replacement fan assembly if needed.

Fingers crossed that all will check out and be back together soon. I will not post anymore on this thread, unless I find something that is relavent beyond a simple assembly mistake. Those things happen. The sop did say they've done just under 20 of these swap outs with the new register with pancake fans, and never have a problem with one before.

Best to all,
Smitty

Smitty77 · 10-29-2014, 12:39 PM

Well, I did get the fan with the missing positive wire reconnected, and it does work. The other fan, the one that probably ran for a max of 7-8 hours (the tech said he ran it after install, probably heard the fan noise, and did not know it was only one fan), is not working.

I checked into the fans used, and being polite - they were chosen to meet a low price point

!

Noctua.at - sound-optimised premium components "Designed in Austria"!

I've always had good luck with Noctua fans in different computers, and the NF-B9 model is an exact replacement at 92 X 92 X 25 MM. Higher CFM by quite a bit, and much lower sound at 17.6dB(A) on high speed. (This fan can be run at three different settings. Even the lowest setting is more CFM and quieter then the fans that were supplied... I'll default these to high, as this is the front of the coach, with the windshield heat loss (and gain) so figured crank it up

! (If I find the CFM is too high/fast across the radiator to absorb heat, I'll step it back to the medium fans speed and try again, and yep to the lowest too, if that does not work...).

I've seen many, think Gary did his own custom one too, homemade fan kits for replacement of the stock squirrel fan cages. I'll go this way if I find a need to do this again...

Best to all,
Smitty

Smitty77 · 10-30-2014, 12:12 PM

I'm having fun posting to my own thread!

I thought I should clarify that I don't know where the register/fan assembly installed came from. No part number or name is on the invoice. I have a call into the shop to resolve getting a replacement fan assembly sent to me. And will ask them where they got the part. (This place did buy lots of inventory from the Monaco bankruptcy parts sale.)

Roger Burke(SP?), from the RVHYDRONICS board, pointed out that the AquaHot replacement register and fan assemblies are of better quality.

He even said that he should have a new register/fan assembly coming in from AquaHot soon, that will offer a three speed fan option. Supposed to be pretty quiet even up on high setting.

Until I know where this part was sourced from, I wanted to be clear I was not trying to bad mouth AquaHot

!

Best to all,
Smitty

smlranger · 10-30-2014, 06:12 PM

Smitty, the OEM exchangers in my Allure were from Heater Craft and, other than really noisy squirrel cage fans, seemed to be pretty sturdy. The cases are aluminum, the radiators seemed well built. I used muffin fans provided by Roger in two of my Heater Craft exchangers and swapped out a third HC exchanger with the AH Cozy exchanger assembly also from Roger. While the Cozy exchanger is fine, it does not appear to be the same overall quality as the Heater Craft. The Cozy is in a plastic case and the radiator in it was smaller than those in the Heater Crafts. If I had it to do again, I would get higher flow quiet fans from Grainger (or some other source) and just put them in the HC box. The Cozy exchanger does not seem to put out as much heat as the HC units and that may be due to the smaller fans and the smaller radiator.

The primary weakness in the HC exchangers was the noisy fans. They moved a lot of air but you could hear them all over the coach.

gsander1 · 10-31-2014, 11:05 AM

Another approach to the HeaterCraft squirrel cage fan noise is a three speed switch. All of the HC fans I have had in my two CCs were wired to the medium speed wire. I bought three speed switches from HeaterCraft and installed them where I either wanted quieter operation on low speed or greater heat from high speed. Works great for me and is not a challenge from an installation perspective.

smlranger · 10-31-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsander1

Another approach to the HeaterCraft squirrel cage fan noise is a three speed switch. All of the HC fans I have had in my two CCs were wired to the medium speed wire. I bought three speed switches from HeaterCraft and installed them where I either wanted quieter operation on low speed or greater heat from high speed. Works great for me and is not a challenge from an installation perspective.

I tried that but to no avail. In fact, I ordered a new motor from Heater Craft and tried all three speeds and the motor was so noisy even on low speed I sent it back. The entire armature had slop in it and if you moved it around, it would rattle and purr like a loud tomcat. That was before installing the cage on it. Once the cage was on the shaft, the noise got louder.

Smitty77 · 11-01-2014, 10:02 PM

UPS dropped the fans at the campground office yesterday, and I installed them earlier today.

Comparing the new fans on the front register to the OEM fan on the register beneath the kitchen counter. Some observations:

1) Airflow of the new fans I'd say is between 25-30% stronger then OEM's. (Do not know OEM CFM, so this is only what I feel by a hand in front of the register test...)

2) Noise level of the new fan is about 65-76% less then the OEM's.

I'll work this mod into for sure the one in the kitchen to make the living area a bit less loud with Zone 1 one. Will not change Zone 2, unless they OEM's go out, as the DW likes the muffling sounds it makes for sleeping. Especially if we are using the Hydro Hot Diesel vs Electric element - as that always sounds like a helicopter taking off - and in the bay right in front of the passenger Tag - makes it very noticeable in the bedroom.

Pleased with the results. And as this fan is a 4 Pin, with three speeds available, I could add a switch to control the speed. I don't think I will, as it is so quiet. And when we want hear, we want heat!

Best to all,
Smitty

TAGAXLE · 11-29-2014, 09:33 PM

Hi,
I saw your pictures of your heat exchangers along with the squirrel cages and they are like the ones I have in my 2008 FE Inspire. I understand that Heater Craft does not make the same kind any more. The heat exchanger motor in the bathroom area is a 24Volt and is why it is noisy and goes up and down, I assume. The one in the kitchen is getting noisy and the bedroom one under the closet runs the best out of them all. I have only two zones and want to hook another in the living room under the couch into one of these zones. I have seen the Aqua Hot ones on line and they do not meet my needs as I want to use hoses to vent to under my coach much like the one under my sink area.
So having said all of that, what I would appreciate is where I can order the motors for the OEM heat exchangers from you please as I want at least two on hand. I do appreciate your help and your comments and pictures as they really cleared up my searching for something like mine.
Thanks
Frank

smlranger · 11-30-2014, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAGAXLE

Hi,
I saw your pictures of your heat exchangers along with the squirrel cages and they are like the ones I have in my 2008 FE Inspire. I understand that Heater Craft does not make the same kind any more. The heat exchanger motor in the bathroom area is a 24Volt and is why it is noisy and goes up and down, I assume. The one in the kitchen is getting noisy and the bedroom one under the closet runs the best out of them all. I have only two zones and want to hook another in the living room under the couch into one of these zones. I have seen the Aqua Hot ones on line and they do not meet my needs as I want to use hoses to vent to under my coach much like the one under my sink area.
So having said all of that, what I would appreciate is where I can order the motors for the OEM heat exchangers from you please as I want at least two on hand. I do appreciate your help and your comments and pictures as they really cleared up my searching for something like mine.
Thanks
Frank

Frank, when I was first trying to replace one of the Heater Craft motors that had seized up, I was able to get a new replacement from them. They told me they were not getting them any more but they did have several on the shelf. I paid $75 for the motor and it was as noisy as the others when I got it. The armature in it had a bunch of slop and it rattled and purred loudly. I sent it back for a refund and replaced all my HC motors with the 12v muffin fans.

Smitty77 · 11-30-2014, 03:33 PM

You might want to make contact with Roger Berke, he said he was just getting in some newer registers (can't recall from whom) that had a very good quality and quiet set of fans.

Wow I'm OK with what I have done, I'll most likely give this unit a try when I replace the register (of if possible, retrofit the fan on the existing register) below the kitchen galley.

The rear zone register has fan noise is just extra 'white noise' while sleeping, and still running good, so will let that one go until it goes out.

I like the quiet fan products

!

I know Gary is happy with his unit too, wonder if these are the same ones that Roger has?

Best to all,
Smitty

TAGAXLE · 12-07-2014, 09:01 AM

Thank you for your response. I have tried working with Country Coach on getting new ones but they seem to be more busy just working in their facility on RV than working with people like me that will do their own work. Oh well their loss.

Frank

smlranger · 12-07-2014, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAGAXLE

Thank you for your response. I have tried working with Country Coach on getting new ones but they seem to be more busy just working in their facility on RV than working with people like me that will do their own work. Oh well their loss.

Frank

Frank, while I have gotten a lot of help from Country Coach (tech support by phone and service at their facility), I think many of us have found a variety of sources for replacement parts. Whenever I can, I go to the original supplier. For example when my house 12 volt 400 amp solenoid died, CC wanted nearly $300 for a replacement. I Googled it and found the same solenoid (Blue Sea) on Amazon for $150.

Another great source for parts is Kevin Waite at (541) 953-6162. Kevin is a former CC tech and has his own service, repair and parts business in Junction City, OR. Kevin is a great source for stuff for you CC.