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Old 11-10-2015, 04:34 PM   #1
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Parasitic/unknown loads on house batteries?

I left my coach at a local repair shop 9 days ago. We shut everything off, inverter off and shut off the house battery (salesman) switch. Today I went to the shop to get some things out of the coach. They have not started on it yet so it is was on their lot. They had also turned off the chassis battery switch.

I went inside to get the stuff and checked the Magnum Energy remote display and it was showing 12.2 volts on the house batteries. I have six 6Volt Full River GC224 AGM house batteries which are about two years old. I decided to start the genset for a bit and 12.2 volts would not crank it. It would crank over three times then do nothing. I had to start the Cummins to crank the generator.

So my concerns/questions:

1. Are there other hidden loads on the house batteries that would not be disconnected by the house battery switch?

2. I have AGS and it is set to start the generator at 12.2 volts if we are not on shore power. Guess that is not going to work since that doesn't seem to be enough to crank the thing.

Because of space limitations in the battery area, I do have one of the Full Rivers mounted on its side but thought that was OK for AGM's. I now wonder if that one is bad.

My coach has been connected to a 50 amp service at home whenever we were not using it. This is the first time it has been off line since we bought it in 2013.

Any ideas are appreciated.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:54 PM   #2
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We have a 2004 CC Intrigue with 8D lifeline batteries. I tried doing everything you did and still could not get everything off. The inverter stays on and others have said it is direct wired to the house batteries. If I leave mine alone for 9 days I have a similar battery reading to yours. At this point I am ready to try disconnecting the neg battery cable - but the location is hard to reach and I do not bend as well as I did a few years ago.
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:12 PM   #3
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With everything 'off', our Magnum BMK is reporting just over 8 Amps parasitic drain. We're usually in enough sunshine during the day, that the Solar Panels keep us charged all the way up, especially when in 'idle' power mode like this.

And, I'm for sure one that resembles the not bending like I used too (Though I find that by going real slow, I can 'bend into' unusual places and positions. However, I've been known to whine for help with the DW to come 'help me unbend/get out'!)

I think the investment of a blade cutoff switch to the primary negative post, is a solid investment the next time the coach is into a shop you trust for repairs.

On the AGS, which I'd suggest a call to Magnum tech support to ask for their recommended lowest recommended setting. And be sure to ask for a bit of reserve, to cover the other AGS setting that says 'Don't start me up between this time and that time!. Mine is a 10 hour period, so would want to have the setting high enough to allow a little extra to cover that 10 hour period!

(If I had my notes with me, I'd tell you want mine is set at - just don't recall.)

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Old 11-10-2015, 08:18 PM   #4
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On my rig, I have three loads that bypass the house battery switch that I am aware of.

The inverter in the invert mode.
The Link 2000 battery meter.
The Trik-L-Start link between house and chassis batteries.

My 100W solar panel will keep the battery meter at 12.6V or higher if the 440A golf cart house battery switch is off but the chassis battery switch is on.

You might want to check the wires attached to the positive terminal of your house battery to see where they lead?

12.2 Volts should start a generator........that is above half full and prime time to start the generator for a fresh charge event.
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Old 11-10-2015, 09:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandec View Post
On my rig, I have three loads that bypass the house battery switch that I am aware of.

The inverter in the invert mode.
The Link 2000 battery meter.
The Trik-L-Start link between house and chassis batteries.

My 100W solar panel will keep the battery meter at 12.6V or higher if the 440A golf cart house battery switch is off but the chassis battery switch is on.

You might want to check the wires attached to the positive terminal of your house battery to see where they lead?

12.2 Volts should start a generator........that is above half full and prime time to start the generator for a fresh charge event.
The generator cranked sluggishly and just would not start. As soon as I started the coach engine, I could get the generator started. Maybe the wiring from the battery bank to the generator is not large enough to carry sufficient voltage?? I am having a 1000 hour generator service done including valve adjustment so maybe that will make some difference. My previous generator was the Onan 7.5 QD and it spun pretty quick to start. This 10K has always seemed to struggle to spin and start.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:03 AM   #6
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You might need to check your house battery connections for clean and tight contact including the battery ground connection point.

You could also test the voltage reaching the starter and with your multi meter. With a full battery it should read about the same as at the battery or 12.6 dcv or more.

A bad connector could prevent your 12.2 batteries from providing enough power to start the generator but be overridden by the 13.6 dcv from the alternator when the engine was started.

Or, your batteries could be failing, but does not seem likely at two years.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:49 AM   #7
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the best way is probably to install a simple battery disconnect, a high current 200a+ on/off switch. this disconnect is to completely isolate the battery pack. i installed one at the immediate outside of the positive terminal (some people prefer to put it at the negative end). i have observed mine, when it's at off position, the overnight voltage drop was about 0.02-0.05v when the batt was in 13-13.8v range (the higher the batt voltage was the greater voltage drop occurred). that was in line with batt self discharge rate.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:11 PM   #8
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Follow Up: I have asked the shop to install a blade disconnect on the negative side of the house batteries. They are also an Onan-certified shop and their service manager told me 12.2 volts was not enough to start the 10K genset. He suggested at least 12.5 would be needed.

So, I called Kevin Waite to see what he had to say. He did say there were ghost loads on the house batteries and that if I installed a switch, I would have to (for example) re-program the video for my back up camera. Kevin told me that it was his experience that CC did use large enough gauge wire to the generator that voltage drop is not likely the issue unless, of course, I had a bad connection somewhere. Kevin also said that 12.2 volts was likely insufficient to start the generator and agreed 12.5, 12.6 would be the minimum from his perspective.

We talked about the fact that the AGS systems instructions generally recommend lower voltages for your low limit trigger for AGS. For example, my ME AGS manual suggests a low limit of 11.9 volts. Obviously, that is not going to work if you need higher voltage to crank the genny. When I get the coach back from the shop, I will be setting the low limit to at least 12.5 and check to see if that is sufficient to start the Onan.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:38 PM   #9
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Parasitic/unknown loads on house batteries?

Seems kinda fishy to me that you would need 12.5 to start...... my V8 powered car will crank and start with less than that!

12.5 volts implies your battery is at 90% state of charge.....see chart below.

Sounds like severe voltage drop because the wire gauge from batteries to starter on the generator is too small.

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Old 11-18-2015, 01:26 PM   #10
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Seems kinda fishy to me that you would need 12.5 to start...... my V8 powered car will crank and start with less than that!

12.5 volts implies your battery is at 90% state of charge.....see chart below.

Sounds like severe voltage drop because the wire gauge from batteries to starter on the generator is too small.

Attachment 112262
On your car the distance between the battery and starter is 3' while the generator on the MH is closer to 30'. Maybe that has some bearing.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:32 PM   #11
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On your car the distance between the battery and starter is 3' while the generator on the MH is closer to 30'. Maybe that has some bearing.

Exactly why you need larger gauge wire to keep the voltage loss to a minimum!
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:41 PM   #12
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I have never owned any RV that didn't have some parasitic drain.
An 8 amp drain is excessive, though. You can chase it - perhaps starting to pull fuses 1 at a time, but the long term solution in my RVs has always been a marine-based solid disconnect.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:27 PM   #13
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Follow Up: Kevin also said that 12.2 volts was likely insufficient to start the generator and agreed 12.5, 12.6 would be the minimum from his perspective.
It seems strange that the generator used to charge the house battery needs a full house battery before it can begin charging. 12.6 dcv being fully charged?

Perhaps you need to install a dedicated generator start battery, like I have on my old rig, and thereby have a battery that will be full all the time to start the generator.

Of course that does not address the issue of the automatic gen start, which will be starting the generator even though the house battery is full.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:51 PM   #14
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My 12.5KW Onan starts just fine down to 12.0 VDC.
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