Problem:sway bar and height control valve; 2004 Allure

[barclay7568]

I'm shortening this story for the sake of brevity.

While at a function this past weekend, I was leaving on Sunday and front airbags would not fill to travel mode. Heard air from the right front tire area and determined the air source was the drain valve on the bottom of the HCV. Removed the drain and replaced with a brass plug and bags then filled--full. Ride height was about 4" above normal.

While under the coach, also observed that the right plate afixed to the Holland Neway IFS was broken in half horizontally and the bracket holding the sway bar to the IFS was bent back out of shape. The plate holding the HCV was also bent slightly (fixable) and the control arm from the HCV was out of position, thus, no way to control the amount of air in the bags. The middle of the sway bar also may have a slight bend and I may want to replace the sway bar if I can find one.

I took photos of the broken parts but not computer literate enough to post. I located a truck repair shop near my residence that's willing to repair the plate the sway bar attaches to and see what he can do about the HCV with the attaching arm parts. He suggested I try to find new parts to the attachment of the HCV. The HCV for this coach is a Haldex 90554995 which is available locally from several sources.

I talked to a service tech at Holland Neway who was familiar with the CC system of attaching one HCV to an attachment plate to the center of the sway bar so it controls air to both sides of the front. Others put one HCV to each air bag. The problem with the central control point is if you have a problem with the sway bar, you also have a problem with controlling the ride height.

Holland suggested calling CC parts to see if they still had the sway bar and related HCV parts in stock, noting this coach was built 15 years ago. Otherwise, he mentioned that Roadmaster Chassis is the current owner/manu of the sway bar used by CC back in those days.

What I need at present is the name and phone number of the person at Winnebago who is handling CC parts.

Also, what are the specific actions to be taken prior to welding on the chassis of this coach??

I will probably have additional questions as I have this done in the next couple weeks.

Thank much for any assistance.

Joe

[wfalch]

Would also like the web address at CC. Would suggest you try Henderson Line Up in Grants Pass.

[barclay7568]

Wally, thanks for that at Henderson. I had forgotten about them. I will call them tomorrow and talk as they're too far from me to drive with the coach in it's present condition.

[bneukam]

Did your sway bar end links break? Yes they are made by Roadmaster and I would try Kevin Waite for those parts. He usually has them in stock and is very quick in getting them out. The sway bar itself should be okay.
With only one HCV in the front it usually has no problems leveling front to back. But if your coach has a lot of lean in the front this can occur when trying to level. Would always use wood to get the front end close to level if it was off drastically. Then I would have the HWH do its thing to level the coach.

[barclay7568]

Originally Posted by bneukam

Did your sway bar end links break? Yes they are made by Roadmaster and I would try Kevin Waite for those parts. He usually has them in stock and is very quick in getting them out. The sway bar itself should be okay.
With only one HCV in the front it usually has no problems leveling front to back. But if your coach has a lot of lean in the front this can occur when trying to level. Would always use wood to get the front end close to level if it was off drastically. Then I would have the HWH do its thing to level the coach.

The end links on the sway bar do not appear to be broken or bent. As I look up underneath the coach, the sway bar appears to have a slight bow in the center of the coach and the tech at Holland Neway (HN) said it should be straight. I'll have to get under it tomorrow and look at it closely now that I know more of what to look for.

I'll have to look at the back of the coach also to see if I have an additional HCV back there that controls the back. The HN manual shows there to be one present but I've never looked for one. Also, CC may have modified their installation from what's in the HN manual. I happened to get a tech at HN that's been there a number of years and he remembers how CC installed the HCV on the front of the unit by attaching it to the sway bar. He said CC was one of his best customers from the RV world based on the number of front and rear units they ordered from him.

I don't have any noticeable lean in the front end when leveling, dependent on ground conditions. I try to level and if unable to get level, I look and see what's low and put blocks under the tire, then level with no problems. I do a lot of parking on grass fields so it's always a crap shoot if you land on a low spot in the ground.

I'll call Kevin W tomorrow to see if he has any parts I could use.

Thx for the heads up.

[bneukam]

If the sway bar is bowed in the center of the coach maybe the C clamps with bushings broke off from the frame. This is not very common.
The sway bar has 4 connection points. 2 end links, 2 C clamps that bolted to the frames just outside the HCV.
The HCV and it’s mounting brackets that are in the center of the sway bar have nothing to do with keeping the sway bar aligned. My guess is one of those connections on the sway bar broke throwing off your HCV. I agree with you that it’s not a very good setup. The front end on these CC only have 1/16 of an inch leeway

[barclay7568]

Originally Posted by bneukam

If the sway bar is bowed in the center of the coach maybe the C clamps with bushings broke off from the frame. This is not very common.
The sway bar has 4 connection points. 2 end links, 2 C clamps that bolted to the frames just outside the HCV.
The HCV and it’s mounting brackets that are in the center of the sway bar have nothing to do with keeping the sway bar aligned. My guess is one of those connections on the sway bar broke throwing off your HCV. I agree with you that it’s not a very good setup. The front end on these CC only have 1/16 of an inch leeway

My C clamps are both mounted within 12" or so from the end pins. The "frame" they are attached to is the rear of the IFS. It has a 90 degree plate welded to the IFS with two holes for the C clamp to bolt to. The right hand plate broke in half horizontally and the C clamp now looks like a big U clamp but opened almost to flat. The left hand C clamp looks OK and is not distorted. When the C clamp gave way, it went upward and bent the HCV mounting plate and the arm mounted on the HCV. I need new parts on that arm. The plate on the IFS has to be welded back together, and to strengthen it, they are going to weld another plate on the back side, drill two new holes, then install the C clamp with longer bolts.

Incidentally, in 2010, the left hand C clamp broke when the HCV put too much air in the bag until the clamp broke. When the C clamp broke, it sounded like a gunshot going off under the coach. The shop I had do the fix could only determine that the arm from the HCV hung up, for some reason, in it's travel channel, and put too much air in the bag. They never determined why this occurred. It's worked fine until now when the right hand side popped loose.

I agree that the mounting bracket in the middle of the sway bar has nothing to do with providing stability (sway bar acts as a hanger for the bracket) and yes, no doubt when the C clamp broke, it disturbed the HCV and its proper function.

[Smitty77]

Will follow your thread, and wish yours painless resolutions as possible!

As info sharing. Be aware that some 04 Allures, had a recall to add brace to the IFS. Sure coach is a 40' and serial 31017, build date of Sept 2003. We ran into another Allure owner about 3 1/2 years ago, who had a coach with lots of ongoing front suspension 'issue's'. His serial was not too much later then ours, and he did not know the build date. He bought it from his Dad. And he did not know about the recall to upgrade reinforce the front suspension.

Might also be worth checking if our specific Allure, was subject to this post build Voluntary Recall to add bracing...

If so, try and find someone that can help you on that too, and then dial i everything one more time. Get all axle alignment (Which includes road height setting too.). I also suggest if the front IFS has the OEM Koni SP1 generation Adjustable Shock, that you replace it them too... We went with Road King's when we did our research 5-7 years ago now. But I believe the Koni EVO-99's to be a viable great improvement over the front Adjustable SP1 Kong's, which are frankly overwhelmed with taming the fron IFS of at last the 40' coach of that era.

And yes, I strayed here form your immediate problem. But, recall the gent I was talking with was very frustrated at having it seemed to him, every one to one and half year's - having front suspension problems. And, he kept wondering what all the CC owner's were talking about a 'good ride'...

We feel that we have a great handling coach now, after the inclusion of the recall front end bracing, as well as the now last generation Road King 2 1/2" shocks. We also added Source Engineering's Comfort Control Valves on the airline's, which also refined the ride...

Best of luck to you, and will follow this thread,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017, 40' High Cascade

[barclay7568]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

Will follow your thread, and wish yours painless resolutions as possible!

As info sharing. Be aware that some 04 Allures, had a recall to add brace to the IFS. Sure coach is a 40' and serial 31017, build date of Sept 2003. We ran into another Allure owner about 3 1/2 years ago, who had a coach with lots of ongoing front suspension 'issue's'. His serial was not too much later then ours, and he did not know the build date. He bought it from his Dad. And he did not know about the recall to upgrade reinforce the front suspension.

Might also be worth checking if our specific Allure, was subject to this post build Voluntary Recall to add bracing...

If so, try and find someone that can help you on that too, and then dial i everything one more time. Get all axle alignment (Which includes road height setting too.). I also suggest if the front IFS has the OEM Koni SP1 generation Adjustable Shock, that you replace it them too... We went with Road King's when we did our research 5-7 years ago now. But I believe the Koni EVO-99's to be a viable great improvement over the front Adjustable SP1 Kong's, which are frankly overwhelmed with taming the fron IFS of at last the 40' coach of that era.

And yes, I strayed here form your immediate problem. But, recall the gent I was talking with was very frustrated at having it seemed to him, every one to one and half year's - having front suspension problems. And, he kept wondering what all the CC owner's were talking about a 'good ride'...

We feel that we have a great handling coach now, after the inclusion of the recall front end bracing, as well as the now last generation Road King 2 1/2" shocks. We also added Source Engineering's Comfort Control Valves on the airline's, which also refined the ride...

Best of luck to you, and will follow this thread,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017, 40' High Cascade

Smitty, thanks for all that. Mine is 2004 Allure, 36', #30997, bought new in 2/2005; haven't received any recall info pertaining to IFS but that doesn't mean there wasn't one and I was overlooked.

I have a trip planned end of Sept for 200 miles so my immediate concern is to get the sway bar attached as it should be and get the ride height stabilized. I'll worry about beefing things up this winter when it's in the barn. Henderson in Grants Pass, OR, may be a possibility but I can't get there in it's present condition so will look at that this winter. Hopefully, I'll spend the day on the phone getting the parts I need and get it worked on next week at a local shop.

Will advise what I end up getting done to correct the problem.

[bneukam]

Kevin W does have a chassis guy named Brian, he may be a great resource for this.
Since these coaches only have one valve in front the rear HCV’s are crucial to keep the coach level up front. If one starts getting sluggish in the rear, it will put a lot of strain on those sway bar mounts. IMO those valves should be replaced every 15 to 20k miles.
Sounds like you’ve got a plan moving forward.
Good Luck

[barclay7568]

Originally Posted by bneukam

Kevin W does have a chassis guy named Brian, he may be a great resource for this.
Since these coaches only have one valve in front the rear HCV’s are crucial to keep the coach level up front. If one starts getting sluggish in the rear, it will put a lot of strain on those sway bar mounts. IMO those valves should be replaced every 15 to 20k miles.
Sounds like you’ve got a plan moving forward.
Good Luck

Appreciate that. Have a call in for Kevin now and will ask about Brian when he calls back.

[Smitty77]

Here is the one I was thinking about, and I confirmed my unit had the changed made, as it needed it for our 40'. May not apply to your 36'(?).

----- Start of ugly formatted copy !) -----------

"2004 Country Coach Intrigue Steering Recall 04E040000

Action Number: N/A
Service Bulletin Number: 04E040000
Report Date: May 28, 2004 Component: Steering
Potential Units Affected: 610
Manufacturer: Holland Usa, Inc.
Summary: Holland independent front suspensions p/n 90547917 ifs-114 with the 90547978 subframe for use on certain country coach vehicles and shipped between march 5, 2003, and june 28, 2004. Early ifs-114 units with p/n 90546687 used a different subframe, p/n 90546691 that is not affected by this recall. The new subframe did not have gussets that help support the steering gear mounting plate. The lack of gussets allows excessive flexing of the steering gear mounting plate which may lead to fatigue cracks.
Consequence: If a crack were to develop and propagate to the point where the steering gear mounting plate were to separate from the suspension subframe, then steering can become loose with possible loss of steering control. A vehicle crash could occur, possibly resulting in personal injury or even death.
Remedy: Holland will notify country coach's customers and provide remedy free of charge. Owner notification began july 28, 2004. Owners who take their vehicles to an authorized dealer on an agreed upon service date and do not receive the free remedy within a reasonable time should contact holland usa customer service at 1-888-396-6501."

---------- End of as noted, ugly formatted copy... ----------

And here is a link to recalls, may not be all of them, as this is a data-mining type site. I do see the recall for the added side reflectors/light mentioned too..

https://www.automd.com/recall/countr...ure_mm/2004_y/


I'd also take some of those listed effective dates with a grain of salt. As our coach was manufactured in Sept 2003, as a 2004 model. But I find we're sort of a hybrid cross over between the shift from 2003 to 2004 model. We have some items that show as deleted for 2004 from 2003, on our coach. And we have some items shown as added for 2004 models, missing. Finally, we actually are not even listed in NADA. 2004 Allure 40' High Cascade 2 Driver Side Slides - were never apparently built by Country Coach. When I asked NADA about how to get this updated, it made it harder to get financing, they said only CC could make such a request. I asked for the reborn CC under Ron Lee, to make this request for me... But never could get anyone to do so...

Not really an issue, as our build sheet shows the model year, and what is on the coach.

Best of luck to you,
Smitty
04 Allure 31017

[bneukam]

Here is the # I have for Brian
541-513-5224

[PRO-BILT]

Thanks Smitty for the update. Lucky for me, mine is the earlier version. Good info on the recall site.