Tag Axle tire wear?

[darstar]

Originally Posted by IASM

Just to give some insight.
On my rig the weight is 17500 front 20750 drive and 10500 tag.
I can raise the tag regulator and increase the weight held by the tag and it will reduce the drive weight but will increase the steer weight also.
When I raise the tag off the ground the drive weight goes to 32000 and the front comes down 16750. This is due to increasing the rear overhang and changing the wheelbase. I use the pressure to manage the weight I can tolerate on the steer. Its a delicate balance with loads at the top end of spec.
Not sure what the original posters problem is. Without pictures ,tire sizes ect . I got nothing.

Maybe putting the generator out front hang off is part of the problem.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by IASM

Just to give some insight.
On my rig the weight is 17500 front 20750 drive and 10500 tag.
I can raise the tag regulator and increase the weight held by the tag and it will reduce the drive weight but will increase the steer weight also.
When I raise the tag off the ground the drive weight goes to 32000 and the front comes down 16750. This is due to increasing the rear overhang and changing the wheelbase. I use the pressure to manage the weight I can tolerate on the steer. Its a delicate balance with loads at the top end of spec.
Not sure what the original posters problem is. Without pictures ,tire sizes ect . I got nothing.

Good post.

Without a better description of the problem and pictures everything is a guess. Even with pictures still speculation.

Is the tag dumped or raised when maneuvering, what is the tag axle weight, what is the weight on the drive and steer axles?

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

Good post.

Without a better description of the problem and pictures everything is a guess. Even with pictures still speculation.

Is the tag dumped or raised when maneuvering, what is the tag axle weight, what is the weight on the drive and steer axles?

Tires usually are not the first to go , I still say there are internal problems, nothing to do with weight. Some of the newer high end coaches have self steering tags too.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by darstar

Tires usually are not the first to go , I still say there are internal problems, nothing to do with weight. Some of the newer high end coaches have self steering tags too.

I agree tires should last a long time. Could be almost anything including a bad batch of tires.

Without seeing the symptoms it is very difficult to guess the illness and the solution. Sort of like trying to swat a fly in a dark room.

Generally the trouble shooting starts with the simplest and least costly solution. Tire pressure is a really easy and simple start and quick solution if that is the problem. Then tag pressures and ride height are easy.

Passive steer tag axles are now all of the rage. Seems like marketing has found another thing to ensure people with money are separated from it. However if you take the time to read the manufacturers website and their claims you will see some of the performance increases are by comparing a passive steer to a non lifting tag (by one manufacturer). So the manufacturers comparison while valid is overly optimistic since most of the tags are lifting or have a dump. Add to the fact that 99% of the tires age out before a MH is driven far enough to wear the tires it comes to my mind that the steerable tag is an expensive option that adds to the maintenance with no benefits to extending the life of the tires on the coach but is neat to see.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

I agree tires should last a long time. Could be almost anything including a bad batch of tires.

Without seeing the symptoms it is very difficult to guess the illness and the solution. Sort of like trying to swat a fly in a dark room.

Generally the trouble shooting starts with the simplest and least costly solution. Tire pressure is a really easy and simple start and quick solution if that is the problem. Then tag pressures and ride height are easy.

Passive steer tag axles are now all of the rage. Seems like marketing has found another thing to ensure people with money are separated from it. However if you take the time to read the manufacturers website and their claims you will see some of the performance increases are by comparing a passive steer to a non lifting tag (by one manufacturer). So the manufacturers comparison while valid is overly optimistic since most of the tags are lifting or have a dump. Add to the fact that 99% of the tires age out before a MH is driven far enough to wear the tires it comes to my mind that the steerable tag is an expensive option that adds to the maintenance with no benefits to extending the life of the tires on the coach but is neat to see.

Agreed,but , the steerable is active constant , much less strain on chassis parts, especially when hauling a lot of weight around. MH folks really should not need this , but there are times, tight turns, even at speed when you can not regulate air pressure.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by darstar

Agreed,but , the steerable is active constant , much less strain on chassis parts, especially when hauling a lot of weight around. MH folks really should not need this , but there are times, tight turns, even at speed when you can not regulate air pressure.

From what I understand the passive steering (available on most coaches) only works when going forward. Reverse is locking and uses air dump. At speed in forward it locks as well but at a slightly higher speed (20 mph I recall) than the standard air dump (8 mph).

While 8 mph seems low it is a speed above which I do not want to nor will make many tight turns.

There is a question I have about passive steering is how it centers itself when going into reverse if you are in the midst of a turn going forward. Is there a mechanical device that skids the tire to center or do you have to drive straight for a few feet so it is centered?

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

From what I understand the passive steering (available on most coaches) only works when going forward. Reverse is locking and uses air dump. At speed in forward it locks as well but at a slightly higher speed (20 mph I recall) than the standard air dump (8 mph).

While 8 mph seems low it is a speed above which I do not want to nor will make many tight turns.

There is a question I have about passive steering is how it centers itself when going into reverse if you are in the midst of a turn going forward. Is there a mechanical device that skids the tire to center or do you have to drive straight for a few feet so it is centered?

There are both kinds, computer controlled Turing is required with multi axle combos but that is not what we are considering, I think anyway. Steerable axles self center going forward , motion makes it self center, so yes a short distance is required in order to self center. .......a lot of new technology in use today has come along without my knowledge ( retired ) , so I maybe the wrong guy to ask about how it all works. Some states require all axles to be on the ground at all times and some do not allow driver control of dump valves......... Many cars have drive axles that turn slightly , and at speed too so a lot comes to play when understanding how the different systems operate. First and foremost safety is the first factor involved so one can guess there are foolproof designs in use. One thing I know is a stearable tag axle must have lift abilities , otherwise going in reverse the axle could go right or left at will, not a good thing !

[darstar]

Originally Posted by darstar

There are both kinds, computer controlled Turing is required with multi axle combos but that is not what we are considering, I think anyway. Steerable axles self center going forward , motion makes it self center, so yes a short distance is required in order to self center. .......a lot of new technology in use today has come along without my knowledge ( retired ) , so I maybe the wrong guy to ask about how it all works. Some states require all axles to be on the ground at all times and some do not allow driver control of dump valves......... Many cars have drive axles that turn slightly , and at speed too so a lot comes to play when understanding how the different systems operate. First and foremost safety is the first factor involved so one can guess there are foolproof designs in use. One thing I know is a stearable tag axle must have lift abilities , otherwise going in reverse the axle could go right or left at will, not a good thing !

A sidebar here is personal experience , two years ago , in winter on snow packed highway I had teg axle brake stuck to the brake drum , wheel would not turn, so I tried several attempts to brake loose . I should have got out a big hammer and crawled under, which I could not due even if I could have found a way to slide under the coach., so...I dumped the air which also lifted the axle thinking this would get,me the 4 miles to a shop. I true to stay under 8 mph, but that is almost impossible anyway. When I got there I had A blown tire for obvious reasons ! Had I been able to override the system I could have saved the tire, too bad for me, so there are sometimes when driver control would come in handy !

[CampDaven]

If I need to lift the tag during travel all I would need to do is adjust the downforce pressure to zero

[darstar]

Originally Posted by CampDaven

If I need to lift the tag during travel all I would need to do is adjust the downforce pressure to zero

You would have to override the system. The airbags automatically inflate at 8 mph. , which also lifts the axle a small amount, maybe an inch or less. Installing a override valve ( electric) would work I guess but the control unit wiring would be tough over 45 ft.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by darstar

You would have to override the system. The airbags automatically inflate at 8 mph. , which also lifts the axle a small amount, maybe an inch or less. Installing a override valve ( electric) would work I guess but the control unit wiring would be tough over 45 ft.

Mine has a downforce adjustment dial. Zero is zero.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by darstar

You would have to override the system. The airbags automatically inflate at 8 mph. , which also lifts the axle a small amount, maybe an inch or less. Installing a override valve ( electric) would work I guess but the control unit wiring would be tough over 45 ft.

Our tag dumps but does not lift. The weight of the tire and axle are still on the ground.

Access to our storage shop is across lawn. If the tag is dumped you can just barely see where the grass has been damaged by the tag skidding. If the tag is not dumped you can plainly see damaged grass and some area where the tire ribs have rolled the sod a bit.

[mel s]

Unless the tag tires are lifted clear of the pavement they are always scuffing/wearing a little whenever the coach is turning.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by mel s

Unless the tag tires are lifted clear of the pavement they are always scuffing/wearing a little whenever the coach is turning.

Yep.
This is why I suggested that the OP check the tag bag pressure gauge