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Old 12-27-2014, 08:54 PM   #1
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Where am I going wrong .....??

Project this winter was to install solar to coach, 2004 Allure Pendleton, 36', coach 30997. Coach has been de-energized for the past 60 days.

Added panels to roof; charge controller and Tri-Metric battery monitor with shunt installed but not yet activated. Neg. side of domestic battery goes to shunt and inverter negative connects on opposite end of shunt.

Decided to change out batteries and inverter and did so.

Old inverter (Xantrex RV2012) was replaced with Magnum Energy MS2012. Xantrex had 4/0 + ; 4/0 - ; and 4/0 ground that attached to coach grounding lug on back of battery bay; also has 6 ga. grounding wire attached to inverter exterior lug to grounding bar above inverter. Xantrex also had Auto Gen Start feature not included on the Magnum. I disconnected these 3 wires, taped the ends and wire tied them into a bundle and left them in the inverter cage. Xantrex has 10-2 w/ grnd AC from main panel and same for return to sub-panel, as does the Magnum.

I connected the 4/0 + ; 4/0 - ; and 6 ga. grnd to inverter lug on the new Magnum. No space to connect the 4/0 grnd to the Magnum so did not attach. (Later learned if you want a larger ground, one has to modify the grounding lug position to accept the larger wire which I have not done as of yet.) The 10-2 w/grnd AC line in and out were attached. In this AC compartment, Magnum inverter has a grounding loop that connects ground to neutral with male/female spade connectors. I left them attached. I don't know how this is handled in the Xantrex.

After checking all my wires, I turned inverter on and after the initial startup, it works fine; charges with shorepower attached and inverts w/out shorepower. Batteries checked out at 13.8V.

Inside of coach has no domestic DC power. Door switch is on and later tested out with no power either off or on position. Batteries tested at 13.8V; inverter + tested at 13.8V; domestic battery disconnect breaker on side wall of battery bay tests out at 13.8V on both sides.

Checking to see if the chassis side was working, I started the engine which started and runs fine. DC power and lights inside the coach then came on but turns off when engine is turned off. With engine off, went to the monitor panel and tried the battery boost switch and DC power comes on inside coach only when switch is held in on position.

I rechecked all my battery cables, both chassis and domestic, and am certain they are reattached correctly.

The question I have is am I creating the problem by dropping the 4/0 grnd on the inverter; leaving the ground to neutral connection inside the inverter; or disconnecting the auto gen start wires? Or, is there another incidental problem I created during the process?

Thanks for any help and/or advice.

Joe
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:41 PM   #2
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I think your house 12V circuit is missing the ground. It's probably the 4/0 ground that you didn't connect to the Magnum inverter.

Jim
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:14 PM   #3
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Jim, thanks for the reply. I do have the #6 AWG attached to the Magnum for the grounding wire. The table for grounding conductor sizes shows the #6 rated to 200A, and #4 AWG rated to 300A. I skimmed over the section on boat installations and after that is where they state, "Some marine installations require the DC ground wire to be the same size or one size smaller than the negative cable." They then give instructions on how to convert to a larger wire. My thoughts are that since the #6AWG is grounding the inverter and completing any circuit, it should be sufficient to power the inside of the coach unless I have other issues going on. Maybe not. Joe
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by barclay7568 View Post
Jim, thanks for the reply. I do have the #6 AWG attached to the Magnum for the grounding wire. The table for grounding conductor sizes shows the #6 rated to 200A, and #4 AWG rated to 300A. I skimmed over the section on boat installations and after that is where they state, "Some marine installations require the DC ground wire to be the same size or one size smaller than the negative cable." They then give instructions on how to convert to a larger wire. My thoughts are that since the #6AWG is grounding the inverter and completing any circuit, it should be sufficient to power the inside of the coach unless I have other issues going on. Maybe not. Joe
I agree with your logic. The #6AWG wire is probably more than sufficient. However, I wonder if the 4/0 ground wire that presently is not hooked up is the ground wire for specifically the circuit that presently is not working.

I'm including a link to a thread that I believe deals with the same situation. In this thread, the OP installed a Xantrex inverter in a Monaco coach, and learned that he had no interior 12V because one ground wire was not connected at the inverter.

All 12VDC lost--2000 Dynasty--NOT salesman switch

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Old 12-28-2014, 07:03 AM   #5
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I think, what you did was leave out a path for batt- to get to ground buss bar. Jump from batt neg to buss bar and see if things work.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:14 PM   #6
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It will be interesting to see the final root cause of this one, hope the last few posts get you closer to solving it.

Just be be sure you knew, assume you did, the MS series does have options to provide some nice features. The RC-50 Remote is the same as the remote panel from Xantrex (And you can adapt the same wire feed with a harness that will save you a new run.). The BMK- Meter provides good info to manage all things electric. And the AGS will get you the Auto Generator Start feature you mentioned was missing.

--------cut and paste------
Available Accessories

Remote Control (ME-RC50). The easy to read LCD screen allows you to monitor your Magnum Energy inverter/charger, set important parameters, and control other Magnum Energy accessories.
Automatic Generator Start (ME-AGS-N). Automatically starts and stops a generator as needed.
Battery Monitor Kit (ME-BMK). Acts as a "fuel gauge" for your batteries, it monitors your batteries stage of charge and then provides information via Magnum Energy remote control.
Web Monitoring Kit (ME-MW-W). The.MagWeb is a power and cost effective tool for remotely monitoring Magnum Energy's inverters and accessories via wireless internet.

--------End of cut and paste-----

Best of ongoing good luck on tracking this one down,
Smitty
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Old 12-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
It will be interesting to see the final root cause of this one, hope the last few posts get you closer to solving it.

Just be be sure you knew, assume you did, the MS series does have options to provide some nice features. The RC-50 Remote is the same as the remote panel from Xantrex (And you can adapt the same wire feed with a harness that will save you a new run.).
I am very interested in the solution to the OP question since I am just getting ready to do the same thing with some of the options mentioned. My question is on the quote above where "you can adapt the same wire feed harness", how do you modify the wire feed? Do you need a new connector or do you just rewire the existing one?

Not trying to hijack the thread but looking for more information.

thanks
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:31 PM   #8
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Bob, Smitty can answer for himself but I think he means I could use the Xantrex remote line on the new Magnum meter instead of pulling a new line for the Magnum. I already determined I could use the old line but I had already pulled three new lines to the coach front for three new meters I'm installing so it's a moot point for me. The solar lines from the roof to the battery bay, and the lines for the meters from the battery bay to the front monitor panel, were not as difficult as I thought they would be and only took me a few hours. Joe
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:39 PM   #9
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Bob, reading your post again, additionally, you can modify your existing Xantrex cable (flat wire) by giving yourself a couple feet from the end, cut the wire, flip the short end over 180 degrees, then solder together in that configuration and it should work on the ME inverters. This came to me directly from Magnum customer service. Joe
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:53 PM   #10
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Guys, thanks for the replies and Jim, thanks for that thread. When testing my batteries today, pos to neg was at 13.9V. Tested between pos batt and chassis ground, ground bus bar above inverter, and on grounding terminal on the inverter and all showed no voltage. Interestingly, I get no reading of voltage even when testing to the #6AWG on the inverter grounding lug. Before pulling the inverter out of the cage, I'll call Magnum in the morning and get their recommendation and let you know what they say. joe
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Old 12-29-2014, 01:37 AM   #11
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It seems a few minutes with a test light should find the problem. Start at the battery bank and follow the ground. My 08 diagram shows house bat going to ground and the positive moving down stream. Please keep us posted. I find using a test light and chasing grounds is the most productive at troubleshooting. I find electrical problems rarely on the hot side.
Rod
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Old 12-29-2014, 05:32 AM   #12
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Generally the 0000 ga wire to the inverter has nothign to do with coach power, there will be a smaller wire hooked to the battery positive, and likewise a smaller wire to the battery negative.. THIS provides house power.

I am guessing here, 100% guessing , but that 2nd ground wire you did not connect.. I'm guessing that is the battery chassis ground and without it the batteries are not connected.

Electrically you have

Chassis----X X-Battery---House

Note the break
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:33 AM   #13
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I suggest in all of these cases, one might be best served by creating a schematic of what you have. The problem will pop right out if there is a wiring mixup. A picture (in this case a schematic) speaks thousands of words. Good luck.
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Old 12-29-2014, 08:36 AM   #14
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Ok I changed out same Inverters and had same exact problem. The large ground wire that you removed needs to be hooked back up to ground the house batteries. I hooked mine up in the battery compartment from house battery to a ground stud on inside of battery compartment. This stud also had a green wire going to it along with a black wire. I used the the large ground wire that I had removed when replacing xantrex inverter. That other ground that comes with the Magna was also grounded but you need two. I even called Country Coach who I purchased Magna from and they were helpful bit lost as to solution.
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