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Old 01-17-2016, 08:31 PM   #15
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Just noticed you had R12...It was Dean referencing R134...

Check everything anyway.
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Old 01-17-2016, 08:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by TQ60 View Post
Just noticed you had R12...It was Dean referencing R134...

Check everything anyway.
mine is r134.
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:10 AM   #17
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12 canned threw me off...

Sams often carries the 35 pound R134 and no issues buying it and it is far better way of buying.

Little cans good for small systems or topping off but if you already have them and enough to do the task...

Harder to measure use as with cans you can count to estimate.

If you have a decent scale to place the bottle on with slack in the hose it works well.
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:46 AM   #18
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Some comments on R-12 to R-134a conversions.
1) The old R-12 uses mineral oil, which is not miscible with the R-134a, so you should flush the lines and parts to remove the mineral oil. They sell aerosol flush, or you can use a solvent and compressed air.
2) R-134a uses PAG oil as the common factory oil, but most conversions use POE (aka "ester") oil.
3) For optimum performance of the A/C system the old R-12 condenser, the part in front of radiator that cools the high pressure side, is not as good as you should have. Especially if an old tube and fin type. R-134a use parallel flow condensers and remove more heat, which is required for optimum cooling performance. The R-12 condenser will work, but you may get cool air vs cold air out the vents.
4) Always use gages to charge R-134a, it is much more sensitive to charge level than the R-12 was. The R-12 sight glass in the drier fill until no more bubbles technique will not work with R-134a. R-134a will always have some bubbles int he sight glass.
5) While new R-134a systems use barrier hose, the old R-12 hoses will work fine. There could be negligible leak through the hose, but not worth the trouble to replace the hoses unless the old hoses are damaged, then use barrier type hose.
6) The small calbration difference between R-12 and R-134a is not enough to worry about, the R-12 expansion valve orifice will work OK for R-134a.
7) If you decide to stay with R-12, the only real cost difference is the R-12 material. You can get an online certification to be able to buy R-12, search EPA 609. It is online test and then you can buy it, but still costs more then R-134a. You still need to take to A/C shop for recovery, if your system has any residual R-12 in it; or R-134a for that matter.
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Old 01-18-2016, 10:46 AM   #19
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From what I've read, and from talking with a CC AC instructor, ester oil is compatible with both R12 and R134a. I was changing and used ester, I think it was the medium weight. The instructor told me that after the AC system has been in use the oil will be spread throughout the system with about 2oz in each of the compressor, receiver drier, and condenser. His suggestion was to place 2oz in whichever of the components replaced. I also read (video) on the internet that a supplier there placed 5oz in each compressor they shipped and had never had a problem in 10 years. I replaced the receiver drier and compressor and added 5oz of ester oil to the compressor only, which is pretty close to what both information sources recommended. There is some leeway there. Too much will reduce cooling and not enough could harm the compressor, so I decided to err on the side that would protect the compressor.

I didn't change hoses and have not had a problem in the Dodge, I don't know about the MH yet. The problem is that the R134a molecules are smaller and it was at first thought that leaks would be significant, but as it turned out, the different oil prevented leaks from being as significant as originally anticipated. All this is from what I've read and the memory of a 76 year old mind, just so you know.

I think most automotive shops carry AC parts. I bought the parts for the MH from Napa.

Best of luck.

Steve
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:14 AM   #20
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while preparing the rig for hitting the road in early spring, i tried to fix the dash a/c (over-the-road a/c) which stopped cooling last year. looked around under the nose, i did notice the leaking expansion valve. i'm going to replace it in next few days. while the system is opened up, i would like to replace the accumulator-drier as well. but strange, i didn't see it. no information available in coach manual either.

does anyone know where it is? tia.

If you are going to open the system to replace the expansion valve and the dryer, it may be worth your while to disconnect the other end of the dryer line at the front evaporator.

I found that my engine based dryer had failed and plugged the expansion valve in that line.

Some AC hose cleaner stuff injected with compressed air after a few hours removed all the little bb's from the system. That was a fun process for this clueless person.

I found the below link to be quite helpful when diagnosing with gauges and understanding the AC system components.

http://www.ariazone.com/manuals/Auto...g%20Manual.pdf
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Old 01-18-2016, 01:41 PM   #21
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If you are going to open the system to replace the expansion valve and the dryer, it may be worth your while to disconnect the other end of the dryer line at the front evaporator.

I found that my engine based dryer had failed and plugged the expansion valve in that line.

Some AC hose cleaner stuff injected with compressed air after a few hours removed all the little bb's from the system. That was a fun process for this clueless person.

I found the below link to be quite helpful when diagnosing with gauges and understanding the AC system components.

http://www.ariazone.com/manuals/Auto...g%20Manual.pdf

That's the way this nearly clueless person understands it too, an internal compressor failure can spread debris throughout the system, which will only be limited by the screen in the receiver drier. I would certainly agree that with a compressor failure at least everything from the receiver drier back to the compressor should be checked for debris, at least that's what I've read. It sounds like yours didn't stop there but went on to the expansion valve, perhaps only very small particles. If these were not removed there and washed through the expansion valve, is it possible for them to get back to the compressor?

Thanks for the link!

Steve
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Old 01-18-2016, 01:55 PM   #22
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In theory, if the system is plugged one should check the lines for the entire loop including the condenser and the evaporator.

I gambled that the dryer failure only plugged two lines. One to my front evaporator and one to my bedroom dryer/expansion valve. That appears to have been successful since the system works fine. (Note, I have an engine compressor driven AC unit in the bedroom in addition to the front dash.)

My compressor did not fail, however, only the compressor clutch failed. I chose to replace the 18 year old compressor for $250 rather than just the clutch for $100.
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:22 PM   #23
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Makes sense to me, I did about the same thing because my compressor is even older than yours. I had no failures other than a very worn belt, and I was changing to R134a.

Steve
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Old 01-18-2016, 05:35 PM   #24
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thank you dean, steve, chevy454 and tq60 (no sequence) for the wealth of info. need time to digest

system cleansing is a good one, and important. i did once on my car, the solvent can be obtained from auto parts stores. with a 150psi 3gal compressor i have it should be no problem.

the oil, good info i exactly needed. 3 years ago i had a shop vacuum the system and filled with r134, so i know for sure there is no r12 in it. this time pag oil should be good. i am thinking to add 4 oz of it, per steve, 2 oz out from the drier and some may have been lost at expansion valve.

for the drier, i called around, both napa and fleetpride have it. i just need to take the old one to them for a match up.

thank you all who responded to this thread. happy trails!!
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:06 AM   #25
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Be certain the compressor doesn't have oil in it already. The one I bought for the truck already had the required amount of oil and the one for the MH had a small amount of packing (?) oil that had to be drained. I drained the oil out, poured a little ester in, turned the compressor over by hand and drained that out before adding the 5oz I left in it. Both compressors came with instructions about installation and the oil that was in them.

Best of luck.

Steve
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Old 02-12-2016, 09:40 PM   #26
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a quick update - i got the drier and installed, then hooked up the gauge set and vacuumed for an hour, and finally charged up with oil and freon. so far it cools pretty good. will know if it holds the charge long enough this summer. thanks all who helped me on this task.

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