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Old 12-10-2015, 07:32 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod View Post
nothermark,

Good point, but people have stated that they been turned down by Warranty Repair Stations while on the road as well. One that comes to mind was a required Warranty repair due to (I believe) a faulty part in the black/grey tank valving.

That was at Fife RV & Auto Center in Fife, Washington State who refused to work on the coach since they didn't buy it there. It didn't matter that they purchased in in another state where they lived. They flatly refused to work on it! From MY window, since they are represent themselves as a Newmar Authorized Warranty Repair Station, that is WRONG! The poster ended up contacting Newmar directly and was referred to another NON-Newmar repair station where they were able to get the repair accomplished, they just had to drive to Seattle with a leaking black tank! Good think they didn't get pulled over and ticketed driving from the "Newmar Authorized Warranty Repair Station!" to the NON-Newmar shop!

I would not argue otherwise. There are folks like that who probably have a full shop and are not looking to add to it. What I am saying is that some are more open than others but the local guy who gets snubbed has a good point.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:05 AM   #72
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Not withstanding the good points made in support of the "local" dealer refusing to do warranty work on a unit not purchased from them, I still don't understand the attitude.

How do you want your customers treated when they are travelling away from home? How does that reflect on both you and the brand if owners have difficulty finding competent service when it is needed? Seems to me that if you want to convince the customer that perhaps paying a premium (although I'd consider $14k much more than a reasonable premium) which would work better. Welcoming every opportunity to help them enjoy their new purchase or turning a cold shoulder? Penny wise, pound foolish is my read on this.

Refusing warranty work on a vehicle not purchased from you is based on an old business model that no longer works. The internet helps us both find what we want at the best price and helps us spread the word to a very wide audience when we're put off by what we perceive as poor service or attitude.

If you can't be competitive on price perhaps you need to look at your business model and not blame the customer for looking out for their best interests.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:13 AM   #73
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It would be easy for the manufacturers to pay the dealers warranty work at full rate. Simply add a percent or two to the MSRP and bingo presto there you go.
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:40 AM   #74
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If you can't be competitive on price perhaps you need to look at your business model and not blame the customer for looking out for their best interests.
Exactly! RV dealers should be held to the same requirements as car dealers. So people would be ok with a car dealer telling you they won't work on your brand XYZ because you didn't buy it from them? That's bull!
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Old 12-11-2015, 02:50 AM   #75
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As has been mentioned, a lot of these situations likely boil down to the relationship between the dealer and the manufacturer. And maybe even a multitude of other variables.
The warranty reimbursement program from the manufacturer may say that it takes x hours to replace x part, and the dealer wants reimbursed for y hours to that part. Which side is being reasonable could be argued, I'm sure.

Right or wrong, if a dealer refuses to perform warranty work for folks who didn't purchase the RV from them, I tend to believe any warranty work gets procrastinated. You know, "still waiting on the part", "waiting on approval from the manufacturer", "we just pulled it into the shop".

And since RV dealers aren't like car dealers (if you don't like one chevy dealership, 15 miles away is another), RVers are somewhat of a captive audience if prompt warranty work is a big concern.

In the end, the customer's loss is greater than the loss on the other end. Yes, the dealer or manufacturer may lose a sale because of these poor relationships, but they are still selling their product.

The customer is stuck with poor choices; buy local at a premium, buy out of town and make roadtrips for warranty work.

Or option three: We have narrowed our search down to three Class A's, and one of them is sold at a local CW with an atrocious service department reputation. Now our choices are between two.
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Old 12-11-2015, 03:55 AM   #76
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Thank you for bringing up this viewpoint.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:11 AM   #77
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Not withstanding the good points made in support of the "local" dealer refusing to do warranty work on a unit not purchased from them, I still don't understand the attitude.

How do you want your customers treated when they are travelling away from home? How does that reflect on both you and the brand if owners have difficulty finding competent service when it is needed? Seems to me that if you want to convince the customer that perhaps paying a premium (although I'd consider $14k much more than a reasonable premium) which would work better. Welcoming every opportunity to help them enjoy their new purchase or turning a cold shoulder? Penny wise, pound foolish is my read on this.

Refusing warranty work on a vehicle not purchased from you is based on an old business model that no longer works. The internet helps us both find what we want at the best price and helps us spread the word to a very wide audience when we're put off by what we perceive as poor service or attitude.

If you can't be competitive on price perhaps you need to look at your business model and not blame the customer for looking out for their best interests.
Actually it is the internet that exacerbates the problem. I first learned it with WATTS phone lines. People would call around looking for price and some dealers would low ball knowing that the purchaser would not drive several hundred miles for warranty work so the selling dealer would not need to eat the cost of cleaning up the purchase. The internet expanded the horizon of the purchaser.

Cost is often geographically influenced by things the dealer cannot control. I live in upstate NY with some of the highest property taxes in the nation. The dealer has to cover that along with the cost of state mandated insurance and other perks I enjoyed as a worker. That makes it easy to find a better deal somewhere else but also makes it easy to understand why the local folks have an attitude problem about buying from the low overhead dealer then wanting service from the local guy who ends up doing warranty work at a loss. I screwed him on the sale so he can easily have an attitude about equal treatment.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:31 AM   #78
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Their beef should not be directed at the dealership, but rather the manufacturer. Dealerships are independently owned. When a dealer flys an "Authorized Service Center" flag does not mean the manufacturer calls the shots. It simply means they have been qualified by the manufacturer to work on that brand.

In the case of warranty work, the rv owner is not the customer of the dealer, but rather, the manufacturer is a customer of the dealer as the dealer performs the manufacturers warranty work for the manufacturer. The manufacturer pays the dealer for the service.

When an Authorized service dealer says no to an rv owner, that may be an indicator to the consumer that there could possibly be relationship issues between the manufacturer and the dealer. I.e difficulty in getting approvals to be reimbursed for warranty work. That is the basic economical principle of the cost to perform all aspects of the work is more than what the manufacturer is willing to reimburse the dealer.

Some manufacturers are easier, quicker and pay for all aspects of the work. Some dont. I'll also add that some dealers are better at performing the work (have mechanics that can do the work in the time alloted for the job) and as a result get fully reimbursed by the manufacturer.
McRod, respectfully, I think you are missing my point. I never used the term "Authorized Service Dealer" or "Authorized Service Center", I used the term Manufacturer "Authorized Warranty Repair Stations" That term denotes that there is a relationship between the Manufacturer and Dealership! As in, the Manufacturer has a working relationship for the Dealer to do Warranty repairs on their brand RV's.

I also never stated that anyone's beef should be directed at the Dealership, you apparently assumed this. Perhaps I was not making myself clear, but my "beef" is with the MANUFACTURERS allowing DEALERSHIPS to be listed as "Authorized Warranty Repair Stations" without the caveat that dealerships can only agree to work on RV's purchased at each individual dealership. This leads to the apparently erroneous assumption on the part of the perspective Buyer or the Owner that they can indeed have Warranty repairs completed at any of the Dealerships that the MANUFACTURER advertised as their "Authorized Warranty Repair Stations".
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:12 AM   #79
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Our dealer is 1800 miles from where we live and 1800 miles from where we snowbird.

We have taken the "tour" (pun not intended) to get warranty work several times. First we bought the coach to travel and it matters not that we deviate a bit to get the work done. Second our dealer is exemplary with the work they do. We have had both warranty and not warranty work done and it is first class.

We arrange a service date and arrive the day before. They provide parking, electricity and let us dump and fill water. The coach goes in the appointed time, work is done on time and we get to stay in the coach each night. They treat us like family.

Selecting the right dealer is number 1 in my opinion. We got a great deal, maybe could have saved a few more dollars but are happy with our coach and dealer.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:07 AM   #80
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Quote:
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Their beef should not be directed at the dealership, but rather the manufacturer. Dealerships are independently owned. When a dealer flys an "Authorized Service Center" flag does not mean the manufacturer calls the shots. It simply means they have been qualified by the manufacturer to work on that brand.

In the case of warranty work, the rv owner is not the customer of the dealer, but rather, the manufacturer is a customer of the dealer as the dealer performs the manufacturers warranty work for the manufacturer. The manufacturer pays the dealer for the service.

When an Authorized service dealer says no to an rv owner, that may be an indicator to the consumer that there could possibly be relationship issues between the manufacturer and the dealer. I.e difficulty in getting approvals to be reimbursed for warranty work. That is the basic economical principle of the cost to perform all aspects of the work is more than what the manufacturer is willing to reimburse the dealer.

Some manufacturers are easier, quicker and pay for all aspects of the work. Some dont. I'll also add that some dealers are better at performing the work (have mechanics that can do the work in the time alloted for the job) and as a result get fully reimbursed by the manufacturer.
I agree. This would be a big red flag to me when purchasing new. You can spin this anyway you want but if the mfr creates or condones an environment where it allows its dealers to only work on units they sell, something is wrong in my eyes.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:54 PM   #81
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I agree. This would be a big red flag to me when purchasing new. You can spin this anyway you want but if the mfr creates or condones an environment where it allows its dealers to only work on units they sell, something is wrong in my eyes.

I don't think it's a red flag. It's (IMHO) a pretty standard practice. Dealers get to make their money on sales, but they're paid under typical labor rates for warranty repairs. As such, any warranty repair is going to go to the bottom of the pile.. Very bottom of the pile if the rig wasn't bought there. It's ridiculous.

Dealers sell RVs indicating that you can get service "at any dealer" and that simply is NOT true. Keystone is especially bad about it - I've been reading BBB complaints where owners who bought out of state simply can't get their RVs serviced "at all" by a local dealer. Keystone points back to their contract stating that getting the RV to a dealer is the responsibility of the owner.

For me, this is a big deal - and our next RV, we're going to seek a manufacturer who does NOT have this problem. That probably means they make reasonable arrangements for service with dealers and are more likely to have a quality product.

We've been stuck on the road with all of our interior lights failed (one at a time) - no dealer would touch it for months. Our recourse was to bring it back to our purchasing dealer (over 1k away at the time) or buy lighting ourselves... And that wasn't a serious issue!


The real problem is that most perspective owners don't know that they can't get service at "any dealer" and that a typical warranty repair is often over 30 days - beyond the "lemon law" condition in most states.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:54 PM   #82
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I agree. This would be a big red flag to me when purchasing new. You can spin this anyway you want but if the mfr creates or condones an environment where it allows its dealers to only work on units they sell, something is wrong in my eyes.
That's my feeling as well. While it may be legal for a business to refuse service, it doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Some businesses may have legitimate reasons to refuse service (such as an abusive situation with a particular customer in the past, etc.), I doubt any reasonable person would classify this as legitimate.
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Old 12-11-2015, 07:46 PM   #83
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Agree what most everyone says, but there stills seems to be this idea that the manufacturers "allow their dealerships"... The dealerships are independent of the manufacturer. Just because they have a relationship doesnt mean one can make decisions for the other. The root of the relationship is vehicle sales. Everything else is secondary to that common goal. A manufacturer is not likely to pull their brand or take any measure against a dealer over warranty issues....especially since the manufacturer is solely responsible for producing a quality vehicle and the most likely culprit causing the need for the repair! QA/ QC anyone?

Think about that... Brand "X" builds an inferior product that requires work during the warranty period. Dealer "Y" sells it and is forced to fix a product that they didnt build and get paid less than their cost to do it??? Maybe the dealer should stop carrying the manufacturers brand until they can meet a lower failure rate in post production work?

A good dealer can still turn that into a profitable situation. Kudos to them, but I'm sure most see it as very frustrating part of their business.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:35 AM   #84
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I worked with floorplan dealers for a while, and the warranty relationship with the customers depended on the contract that each dealer had with each manufacturer... they are NOT all the same!

Some contracts are very specific about the "service level agreement", in which the dealer and the manufacturer agree on the level of service that will be provided to the warranty customer. Often included is what the dealer will be reimbursed for specific jobs, maximum times that the customer has to wait to get scheduled, and even how that manufacturers customers will be handled at dealers other than where where the unit purchased.

Dealers make a good bit of money on accessories purchased in their store, while the customer is waiting. Heck, the last time we went in to schedule some repairs, we ended up buying a new motorhome! lol
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