Looking at 05 Envoy 38ft - Comments and Wisdom please!

[RandD]

We are going to look at an '05 38ft Envoy today. It has a perfect floor plan for our needs and from what I have read, TS units seem to have high owner approval scores. We have been looking for a suitable upgrade to our current rig and this is the best fit we have found in a long time. Too bad TS went under, but I am not worried about an orphan with a good heritage.

I am going to have a diesel mechanic go over the engine _if_ the rig passes my first inspection. I am a bit concerned about two things.

• The MH only as a 330HP Cummins in it. If it is a ISB, I will probably pass. But if it is an ISC, any comments on performance and fuel consumption are welcome! 330hp seems a bit low for a 38ft MH, but if the Torque is there, we are not 'fast' drivers.
• The MH only has a tad over 8100 miles on it. That raises a flag to me. I understand that in the DFW area, many MH owners only drive a short distance a few times a year. If that is the case, then I can deal it and fully expect purchasing new tires, belts, hoses, filters, etc. I will be looking for other things that point to more serious problems like flood/water or 'accident' damage. Are there any other issues I should look for?

I am also going to check the generator hours - I bet I will not be pleased and expect to find very low hours. My current gen on our 05 Class-c has about 500 hours on it since we depend on it for many places we visit.

We have looked at TS motorhomes before at the RV shows and they have always been way up the quality list. If there are any current Envoy owners out there, specially those with 2005 38DS04 floorplans, that would like to share their experiences (good and bad) with us either on the forum or via PM, please do!

Thank you in advance!!

[Ann n Gene]

We had a 38ft Holiday Rambler with the 330 hp Cummins, it WILL be an ISC and we did just fine with ours. It had lots of power, even plenty adequate in the mountains and got over 10 mpg. I would not let that bother me at all. We think that T.S. quality is very high on the list and also bought ours after the factory closed but have not had any trouble getting service. Dont know much about the specific year and model you are looking at but dont worry about the engine, it will be plenty adequate. justy my 2 cents. Good Luck. Gene

[RandD]

Quick update -

• The dealer had a 'clerical error' in their listing - the engine is a 330 CAT 3126, not a Cummins. Actual, based on the engine SN it is an 3126E to be exact if that makes any difference.
• The 8KW PowerTech generator has 236 hours - kinda low but basically the right level for monthly maintenance for a rig that was hardly driven (as in parked somewhere as a house with shore power) and it started up immediately with no issues.
• The Carfax shows no problems (like it was a wrecked or lemmon buyback or Katrina/IKE floater <an RV floating????...right, my pink pig just flew >)

BTW - Thank you Ann 'n Gene for your comments. We spent several hours going over the rig top to bottom (literally) and the build quality is so far above most of the Class-A units we have looked at making it even sadder that TS is no longer with us. We have been mostly concentrating on Tiffins were we to go new, but always said if the right pre-owned rig came our way, we would not hesitate. This one is looking better today than yesterday!

Any other TS owners - please do not hesitate to comment. Learning from each other is the purpose fro this forum and we soak up info like a sponge

[turbo24]

On my 2nd TS, by far the value out there>

[slabman]

Randy, that's a very clean-looking rig you found. Love the low-nap carpet...should be easy to clean. And the low miles? I'd grab it in a heartbeat if the price is right. And converting that front TV to a flat panel should be an easy task, if you are so inclined.

I had a 39 ft. Fleetwood with that came Cat engine and here's what I found. Off the line, I felt I could almost beat a Corvette with that low-end torque. You'll be tempted to jump on out there with hardly any turbo lag. Now when traveling along at highway speeds, you'll notice it drop a couple mph going up just a slight grade, but it's not a concern. The Cummins is the opposite...slow off the line, but will hold hwy. speeds a little better. Mileage with my rig was in the 9's, generally.

Back to your unit. I'd check the roof sealant around the perimeter of the fibreglass roof. I've recently replaced mine with an Eternabond tape. If it's cracked, the potential is there to allow water to penetrate into the coach.

The generator is a good unit...will need an oil change unless you know its been done recently. Don't know if the low miles is necessarily related to being here in DFW...probably the owner never got to use it like he intended, so his loss is your gain.

Some people have been troubled with air bags leaking down while parked. This is due to a leaking valve which sometimes sticks and by-passes air. But your mechanic can check that. I assume you know about cracked or popped-out windshields with these Spartan-based rigs? But this issue is typically more related to the longer rigs...over 40 ft.

After you make your deal and put down some cash, they'll let you drive it. So check out the front end alignment-see if it pulls one way or the other. But if there's a problem it may not yet show on the tires since its a low-mileage rig. Sometimes these coaches come from the factory with re-alignment needs that won't become apparent 'till later.

BTW....who's going to do your inspection? Others who have bought from them have apparently received a fair shake using their inspection process...but that was when the old mechanic was there.

Now, I've mentioned some considerations that ALL coaches are subject to, so please don't let my comments cast a negative shadow on your decision. TS is a great coach and you'll end up loving it. Let us know how you do as this process moves along.

[RandD]

Hi Bob,

I was rather supprised at how clean the rig was. It appears to be a 1 owner repo out of Florida based on what the Carfax I ran and Danny@MHS was able to tell me Saturday. He is checking further into its history (as far as he can) since it is titled to MHS and is _not_ a consignment - that's both the good part and the bad.... I probably can not speak with the previous owner and and there are no engine manuals or maintenance records in the rig, but everything else is from TS and Spartan is there.

I just changed the CRT TV to an LCD HD in my current rig so Electrical and maintenance issues and upgrades are no problem with me being a techno geek.

I can not say I would lean toward either Cat or Cummins as they are both good engines. I don't drive fast now as we tow a car and I limit cruising speed to 65MPH. The engine it is what it is and at 8200 miles, the engine is basically brand new although I am going to check with CAT since I have the engine SN. MHS said all filters and oil will be changed/replaced in both engines so that is a good start. I know nothing much about Diesels except what I have learned from friends, forums, and my regular mechanic who is an independent gas and Diesel mechanic (he wil not work in a shop that uses the book rate for labor because he says it is a ripoff to the customer - he is a rare breed!)

Front tires have an 03 date and definitely will be replaced as they are showing slight sidewall cracking. The rears are 04 date codes and look very good so if we pull the trigger, we will probably wait a year or so to replace them. I do travel with a TPMS. The place in Denton that will probably do the front tires also does truck/MH alignment and that will be on the definite to do list either there or at the Spartan service location in this area if they do them alignments.

Funny you should mention the roof. Wow....what a strange roof! The TS brochure calls it a "Vinyl"...?? I was taken back by how soft it felt under foot compared the 'rubber' roof my current rig has. It was soft feeling across the entire while roof so I do not think it was the plywood decking being rotted. Your thoughts? The caluking is not cracked and in good shape so far. The vent caps all are brittle and busted up so they must be replaced, but everything else up there looked good for a 5 yr coach and there are no signs of any water leaks.

While MHS has a very good reputation, I am going to discuss a private inspection after I speak with CAT and Spartan about any repair history on file. I will need to find a good independent mechanic in the DFW. I may speak with the Spartan Chassis certified service place in this area to discuss an inspection with them. I have read about the front window problems some owners have had and that is something I will need to look into more.

Who knows - if everything lines up right, I may have a new rig soon.We have been looking for a while and are not in a hurry so I will not hesitate to walk away if I find anything serious, but so far, this one looks very good

Thanks you very much for your input and if you think of anything else that would be good to know, please do not hesitate.

[mrschwarz]

I bought a 4 year-old Suncrusier and it had less than 9000 mile on it (DFW area). The mileage might not be an indicator on something bad.

[sailor_lou]

Hi Randy,

This spring we decided that a Travel Supreme 38DS04 was exactly what we wanted and found an identical rig (05 Envoy 38DS04). Although the Envoy was TS's entry level motorhome, the quality of construction is better than many other manufacturer's mid to top of the line models and so far we have been very pleased with the purchase. I almost didn't buy it because I wanted a side radiator and ours has the radiator mounted in the rear, but the owner was sitting on two motorhomes and made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Obviously not a deal breaker, I just view it as an additional maintenance item keeping it clean. I also have a CAT engine, but ours is the 350 HP, C7. Maybe the difference in engine because ours was built in late 05 and originally sold in 06. Plenty of power even with a car and dolly in tow. The roof does flex a little between the ribs when I walk on it, but not so much that I feel there is a problem. I replaced the dark skylight over the shower and the two vent hatches with white translucent covers and it significant brighten both the bath and toilet areas. This started me replacing the roof sealant with Eternabong tape. I feel the Eternabond is a better and more permanent method to seal the seams and roof fixtures. The only negative I have to say is the lack of manfucturer’s specific drawings and diagrams. My first motorhome was a 97 Winnebago Vectra and from Winne’s web page you could download every part number, wiring and plumbing diagram. I do all my own work so I miss not having that level of information. Hopefully, I will not need it. In any case, good luck with your purchase and if you have any specific questions, feel free to contact me.

Lou & Jan
05 Travel Supreme Envoy 38DS04

[RandD]

Hi Lou and thank you for the information,

This is an interesting unit. It is an '05, but the MFG date is 'MA 2004'. Unless I am mistaken, there was not an 04 Envoy so this is a very very early 05 since the standard engine for the 05 is the Cat 350 C7. I dont think the engine is going to be an issue unless it suffers from a lack of use. Out of interest, what mileage are you seeing with your coach?

I do most of my own work as well and am used to making my own diagrams so I know how you feel. I have a Forest River product now and they have not heard of a schematic let alone provide one. If I pull the trigger (still a ways off yet), I am sure I will have fun documenting the wiring and water. At least TS is more logical than some of the things I have seen that Forest River did!

Thanks again!

[sailor_lou]

Randy,

The previous owner stated that he got around 9 MPG, but to be honest I've never checked it. Although that appears to be pretty close. Since my previous rig (97 Ford F53 chassis with a 460 CID V-8 and a E4OD xmission) only got 5.5 to 6.5 MPG, this feels like I'm getting free fuel.....LOL.

Keep us informed of your progress.

Lou

[thormsby]

Hi Randy,

We just purchased ours from MHS in June and was very pleased overall. We flew down from PA and they picked us up at the airport. The walk through went very quick but they did answer the questions that we had. Did have a minor water leak when we hooked up the water but they know there TS coached well and one of the youngs guys knew there was a shut-off valve for the ice maker. They did comply with the agreed gas and propane fill-up before we left the next morning. Again I feel we took a risk by purchasing from so far away but didn't have too many choices around here. The Travel Supreme has been great and we are not disappointed.