110 volt problem...I think

[Timaz]

110 volt problem...I think
I was at a friends doing some "erban camping" in his back yard. I converted down my 50 amp plug to 15/20 and plug in to an outside plug that happened to be a GFI. It popped the GFI the instant it was plugged in.
We killed all of the 110 breakers in the coach and plugged in to the GFI again. The plan was to figure out what circuit was the problem. No luck. It popped with every breaker off.
So we plugged it in to his 50 amp with no problems.
I have a power reel for my power cord so I'm wondering where it terminates. Does it Go directly to the transfer switch?

More Questions: My thought is I have a bad ground that is popping the GFI??? and that would explain a lot with the noisy 12 volt problems I have. So I'm hoping someone here can answer these questions or at least point me in the right direction. You can see the coach I have below...thank you

[Old-Biscuit]

Should Open your RV MAIN 50A breakers and then try plugging into that GFCI Outlet again?


Shore power cord to reel......then to ATS
Generator to ATS
Then ATS to RV MAIN Power Panel


GFCI tripping...could be bad adapter...are you using one of those 'puck' styles or a dogbone type?
Could be bad connection between power cord and adapter
Could be bad contacts on cord reel

[Arch Hoagland]

I have the same problem when plugging into a regular 110 outlet at home.

The solution is: I turn off the double pole 50 amp breakers inside the motorhome, then plug into my house 110 outlet and then turn the 50 amp breakers back on.

Works every time.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

See if your adapter will trip the GFCI without your RV plugged into the adapter. Yes? It's miswired. Nope, trips only when the coach is plugged in? The next possibility is that the coach has neutral and ground bonded - and this is where stuff gets a little complicated. Electrical Code requires that the "neutral" be bonded to the "grounded electrode system" at "the point of service". In your S&B house, that's either at the electric meter (on your side of it) or the first main breaker or breaker panel. From that point on the neutral and ground wires are to remain separate.

Okay so far? Good. The RV's 120V shore power service is considered a "sub panel" under Code, so it maintains the separation of neutral and ground (and is why you have a 4 wire connector). The problem becomes "what about the generator, where is the point of service now?" Code treats "separately derived services" (generators, DC inverters) as *being* the point of service, so now the coach needs for neutral and ground to be bonded - but only when on the generator or inverter. The transfer switch has to handle the bonding/unbonding as well as switching between shore power and the genset.

All that is to point you further up the shore power cord, and leads us to GFCIs.

GFCIs work by detecting a difference in current between the hot leg and the neutral. If they're not the same (within 5 milliamps), the GFCI will trip. If they're not the same it means current is leaking to ground, and that's a potentially dangerous condition.

GFCIs don't like neutrals bonded to ground in more that one place - stray currents to ground will ride on the neutral, resulting in an imbalance and a GFCI trip. Everything leaks a tiny bit of current to ground so there's no way around this.

Since with the all the individual circuit breakers "off" in the coach and still tripping the GFCI, I'd look to see if the transfer switch is working correctly, provided your adapter is not the source of your problem (neutral and ground bonded in that thing?).

Let us know what you find.


ps. Try Old-Biscuit's suggestion about the main breaker.

[vsheetz]

RVs and GFCI protected shore power often dont get along. Refrigerator or inverter/charger are likely suspects. You can work to figure out what's tripping it - but likely wont stop it.

Get rid of the GFCI, imho.

[Timaz]

Wow! first off, thanks to everyone for your insight. I won't be at my friends with the GFI for a long time to test it. But your thoughts are along with mine as far as power leaking to ground. "Could be bad contacts on cord reel" I know my next question sound dumb, but where are these located? And would this cause a 12 volt noise issue in my coach?? I seam to have too many 12 volt noise (dirty 12 volt power) problems. I'm thinking it's this noise problem that may be keeping my new Seelevel gauges from working...see separate post. (tank level gages)

More thoughts?

[YC1]

Solo Rv Guy

That is the clearest and most concise explanation I have ever heard on this subject. I will save this for future reference and gladly repost it as if it was from me. Kidding of course. But I will save and post it when this comes up again, and again, and again.

[153stars]

Confused on "12v noise" your batteries should absorb pulsating DC "noise" might be put out by a poor convertor. But invertor a pretty good.

[txcpl]

Can yo be a bit more descriptive when describing the "noise" emanating from your electrical system? Is it hammering, a loud humming sound, or?

[Timaz]

Originally Posted by 153stars

Confused on "12v noise" your batteries should absorb pulsating DC "noise" might be put out by a poor convertor. But invertor a pretty good.

Batts to absorb most noise / dirty 12V but when you have the batteries so far from what you are running they don't stop everything in between them and your 12v item you are running. I have had to put a 12v stereo filter just before each A/C control board so they cycle on and off correctly. That's why I'm thinking my leaky 110 power to ground may by the problem.
I will report back after the weekend when I work on it.

[Timaz]

Originally Posted by txcpl

Can yo be a bit more descriptive when describing the "noise" emanating from your electrical system? Is it hammering, a loud humming sound, or?

Noise is just a term for dirty 12V power like we use to get from old alternators or hi-performance ignition in your car. In this case you can't hear anything.

I've been told it crops up more than you think in older coaches.

[TonyDi]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

RVs and GFCI protected shore power often dont get along. Refrigerator or inverter/charger are likely suspects. You can work to figure out what's tripping it - but likely wont stop it.

Get rid of the GFCI, imho.

What he said.

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

RVs and GFCI protected shore power often dont get along. Refrigerator or inverter/charger are likely suspects. You can work to figure out what's tripping it - but likely won't stop it.

Get rid of the GFCI, imho.

------------------

Simple - the new GFI's just pop with very little reason so the Simple solution is change it out or plug into a non GFI outlet.

JMHO

[aether_one]

Or, get out your ohmmeter and see if your neutral and ground are bonded on your RV. If so, you can save a lot of other effort.