2000 Holiday Rambler won't start

[Pearman]

Hello, I'm new here and I've got a bit of a problem that I'm hoping someone can help me with. If this is not the right place to post this question could someone please direct me to the right place.

I have a 2000 Holiday Rambler 34' Ambassador with a Cummins 5.9 ISB 260HP. We replaced the house batteries last Friday. Everything in the house part of the coach worked as it should, but we did not try to start it until yesterday.

When the key was turned on the air compressor started running as the air tank was empty. The volt meter I had hooked to the chassis battery showed a slight draw from the comp. and it ran for about a min. then stopped with only about 60 PSI.

When we stated the engine the volt meter showed the starter draw on the battery. After the engine started the battery voltage showed 12.36 stayed there. I was expecting to see an increase in voltage as the engine alternator started charging but there was not.

After about 30 seconds the engine sounded like it was running out of fuel and stopped running. We tried to restart it but it will not run. It has a nearly full fuel tank and clean filters. We took it out Tuesday/Thursday for a 200 mile trip and everything was running great. Got home and did the battery swap and Friday.

I've checked all the obvious fuses and wires in the battery compartment and everything seems OK.

Is there a fuse for the compressor somewhere and if there is low air pressure would this prevent the engine from getting fuel? I assume there is a fuel shut off for the engine. How does this work and Is there a fuse or something that I might check?

Thanks much for any help,
Marc

[Skip426]

Welcome to iRV2.

Sorry you're here with problems.
The problem you describe , with the start up and then quit , cranks but won't re-start . Sounds like a classic lift pump failure, common problem with your vintage of ISB. 24 valve engine. But there are tings to check first.
The low air pressure reading is a non issue right at the moment . JMHO.
The wiring diagrams for my coach have a page that covers the chassis, if equipped with the Cummins engine , and shows 5 fuses for the Cummins ECM (Electronic Control Module) other chassis ( Spartan for sure ) have the same number of fuses for the ECM; in a fuse box near the engine compartment , including a charging system activation fuse , that may be your low alternator output problem.
Here are pictures of the fuse box to look for near the engine ; it can be in the engine bay or a rear compartment , if you find it and all the fuses are good. Then testing the lift pump pressure will be the next step. The engine shut down is controlled internally in the engines VP-44 injector pump.
Checking the VP-44 would be next after the lift pump operation is tested.
The fuse box to look for would be like the one with the two white marks.

[Mike Canter]

Not sure that I understand you when you say the compressor starts when you turn the key on. The air compressor for the tanks is engine driven. I believe what you are hearing is the electric vacuum pump for the dash AC controls. You don't need air pressure to start the motor. And yes it sounds like s lift pump unless you very recently changed fuel filters and something is not tight in the fuel system so it is sucking in air.

[greystroke]

Originally Posted by Pearman

Hello, I'm new here and I've got a bit of a problem that I'm hoping someone can help me with. If this is not the right place to post this question could someone please direct me to the right place.

I have a 2000 Holiday Rambler 34' Ambassador with a Cummins 5.9 ISB 260HP. We replaced the house batteries last Friday. Everything in the house part of the coach worked as it should, but we did not try to start it until yesterday.

When the key was turned on the air compressor started running as the air tank was empty. The volt meter I had hooked to the chassis battery showed a slight draw from the comp. and it ran for about a min. then stopped with only about 60 PSI.

When we stated the engine the volt meter showed the starter draw on the battery. After the engine started the battery voltage showed 12.36 stayed there. I was expecting to see an increase in voltage as the engine alternator started charging but there was not.

After about 30 seconds the engine sounded like it was running out of fuel and stopped running. We tried to restart it but it will not run. It has a nearly full fuel tank and clean filters. We took it out Tuesday/Thursday for a 200 mile trip and everything was running great. Got home and did the battery swap and Friday.

I've checked all the obvious fuses and wires in the battery compartment and everything seems OK.

Is there a fuse for the compressor somewhere and if there is low air pressure would this prevent the engine from getting fuel? I assume there is a fuel shut off for the engine. How does this work and Is there a fuse or something that I might check?

Thanks much for any help,
Marc

You need to know if the engine is dropping any codes. I use the VMSpc by silverleaf so if codes are thrown I know when it occurs.

First things first. Plug into shore power and check your converter checking both coach and chassis batteries charging 13-14 volts. If they are both not charging you could have a bad converter so rule this out. If only one set is charging it could be your Bird System(Bi-directional relay)

Next start the engine with meter attached to CH batteries and make sure it does not get in the 10V range while starting. Could be bad Ch batteries. After the engine starts both sets should charge at 13-14V from alternator. The Ch batteries are each over 900 crank amps so should not load too much.

Lift pump pressures should be 5-15 psi. This is a problem area because if the lift pump pressure gets below 5 psi then the VP44 injection pump may fail. Should drop a code if it has failed. I changed my lift pump when it got down to 6psi. I installed a pressure sensor some time ago. I run 10-12 with my new pump.

Welcome to the forum.

[Pearman]

Skip.

I found the fuse box that looks similar to the one that is open in your second pic. All the fuses checked out good. Haven't been able to find the box with two white marks on it yet. Looked around the engine compartment but no luck. Would it be attached to the engine or on part of the chassis?

Should the lift pump be running when ever the key is on? Mine is not. Where does it get it's power? By the way I have a Roadmaster chassis. Thanks

Also when I turned the key on the air comp again stopped at 60 PSI. I'll have to put a gauge on it and see if in fact it is at 60 or perhaps my dash gauge is off. Probably a separate issue but just wanted you to know. Thanks

[Pearman]

Mike, you are right, the air compressor is engine driven and this would explain why I have 60 PSI duh.

I didn't change filters, but I did open the drain on the bottom of the filter to let out any water and after the no start problem I notice it was dripping a bit, perhaps a 1-2 drips per minute, so I tightened it. Could this small leak suck enough air to shut it down after only 30 seconds of run time? If so how do you go about bleeding the air.

[Pearman]

Greystroke,

I don't have any way of checking codes. If I go get a code checked where do you plug it in?

The converter is charging the house batteries at 13.45. It does not seem to be charging the chassis batteries. They are at 12.56V. When cranking they drop to 12.01V. I'm not sure If I have Bird System.

I'm new to this coach and to RVing in general. I've had it for two wks. So please forgive my lack of knowledge, but I'm trying to learn.

Thanks

[RamiDav]

Originally Posted by Pearman

Mike, you are right, the air compressor is engine driven and this would explain why I have 60 PSI duh.

I didn't change filters, but I did open the drain on the bottom of the filter to let out any water and after the no start problem I notice it was dripping a bit, perhaps a 1-2 drips per minute, so I tightened it. Could this small leak suck enough air to shut it down after only 30 seconds of run time? If so how do you go about bleeding the air.

I think you have diagnosed your problem .
The open filter very possibly introduced air into the fuel line .
You should be hearing the lift pump run when you first turn the key
You may not hear it from the drivers seat so turn on the key and step
to the rear you should hear it run for 30 sec to min , can't remember .
What I do is cycle this pump on approx. 10 times and this will prime
my system , you may need more times since your lines are empty
Now try to start the engine

Ray

[Pearman]

Ray, Thanks I'll go give that a try.

[Pearman]

Ray, I turned on the key and there is nothing but dead silence in the engine rm. Waited a couple of min. and had the wife tune on the key while I listened at the engine and heard nothing. So does this mean I'm not getting power from the ignition switch to the pump or something else?
Thanks

[Mike Canter]

If the filter drain was not tight then I would expect that is the problem and you now have air in the fuel system. It happened to me and doesn't take much air. Now you have tightened it you can try one or two things. You can keep cranking the starter about 20 seconds at a time and see if it will start or you can spray WD40 into the intake as starter fluid. It works great and is safe.

[jleamo1]

Originally Posted by Pearman

Ray, I turned on the key and there is nothing but dead silence in the engine rm. Waited a couple of min. and had the wife tune on the key while I listened at the engine and heard nothing. So does this mean I'm not getting power from the ignition switch to the pump or something else?
Thanks

You should hear the lift pump turn on, buzzing sound like electric razor. It will come on for 30 seconds and shut off to prime the fuel system. If you hear nothing that sounds like your problem is a bad fuel pump. You can also also unscrew the bleeder on top of your #2 filter and have your wife turn the key on, it should squirt fuel out.
You mentioned a Roadmaster chassis, is it a rear radiator or side....can you see the filters?
No problem you are new at this, glad to help. PM me if you want. I replaced my pump in 2014 as a precaution when my fuel lines failed, Cummins redesigned that pump several times, honestly I still think they missed it.

[Pearman]

Ray, I found that if I crank if for a second the lift pump runs for about 30 seconds. Is this right?

[Pearman]

Hi jleamo1,

As I just told Ray, the pump runs for about 30 seconds, but only after hitting the starter for a second.

I'd PM you but don't know how to do that yet. laugh

I'll try the bleeder and see what comes out.

Thanks