RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-17-2019, 10:01 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kelowna BC
Posts: 47
2003 Panther with a Cummins ISM

Im looking at a 2003 safari panther 4213. I really like all the features including the mid entry door. The window sticker says it has a Cummins 500 Ism, I have never seen one of these advertised with a Cummins. Also it says the chassis is a s/t series, does anybody know what the T stands for? Is there anything I should be concerned with on this model? It only has about 60k miles on it, one owner for the lsat 10 years and has been maintained at the same dealer for 10 years also.

Aron
__________________

Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-17-2019, 02:03 PM   #2
Senior Member


 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Blairsville, GA & WPB, FL
Posts: 2,234
Send a message via ICQ to Ivylog
In a 2003 either a Cat C12 or Cummins ISM were still great engines. If it was a 2004 I’d want the ISM. Agree it’s strange that it has a Cummins but around that time all the various brands were being built on the same assembly line. The RR10S is a great handling chassis. Have no idea what the T is for.
__________________

__________________
This post is my opinion, worth what you paid for it.
Our New ride...08 HR Navigator 45. A nice upgrade after 14 years with a 04 Dynasty 42.
Ivylog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 04:26 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
vito.a's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,856
You are sure this engine is red and not yellow?
The Cummins ISM is a great engine. It has a very good power to weight ratio producing 1550 Ft Lbs of torque and either 450 or 500hp. In 2003 they added EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation) which can be troublesome. A 2003 coach should have a 2002 engine.
Hopefully CountryB will answer your chassis question. He has been researching Monaco and Beaver chassis.

Lots of things to be concerned about.
First is pricing. It's all over the map. Do your homework.
The Norcold 1200 refrigerators are an issue. Hopefully the previous owner replaced it with a residential.
The A/C systems are nearing an age when they may need replacing.
Check the under side of the slide outs on the outside for water damage.
Check the tire dates. Even though the tread may look great, check that the dates are not over 7 years old.
Check battery dates. Batteries are good for about 5 years.
The TV's and VCR will need updating.
Check the Trace inverter system. The older Trace inverters are no longer supported.
Check the air leveling system. Hopefully it's an HWH air system. They are great but develop leaks over time and require attention.
If you are not familiar with large diesel coaches, then hire a pro inspector that is.
Best of luck!
__________________
97 Monaco Windsor- Sold
07 Monaco Executive McKinley- Sold
04 Monaco Signature Chateau IV
vito.a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 01:52 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kelowna BC
Posts: 47
Thanks for the pointers.

The coach isnt at the dealer yet, so I cant verify the engine.
It would be great if it was pre egr.

The price in my opinion is reasonable for our area I have been looking for this model for a while. I dont have a problem paying a bit of a premium for a very well maintained low mileage local unit. It has been meticulously maintained by our local dealer for the past 10 years. ( I have been dealing here for about 9 years myself)
I will have to check on the fridge. Those 12v compressor conversions look interesting as we often camp without hookups.

It should be a huge upgrade from my 99 national Tradewinds I have had for the last 9 years

Cheers
Aron
Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 09:00 PM   #5
Member
 
JJTL's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Kitchener, ON, Canada
Posts: 55
My impression was that year of Panther came with a Cat C-12. Below is a copy of the brochure for that model year, and it appears to confirm that thinking. That being said, manufactures constantly made changes and or one offs so brochures should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Easy to check red or yellow once you can see it.

https://www.rvroundtable.com/wp-cont...03.panther.pdf

The chassis is the Roadmaster S-Series semi-monocoque chassis, in my bias opinion the best at the time .
__________________
Josh & Amanda
BIG BLUE - The Family Coach
2001 Monaco Signature Series 42' Classic | 500HP ISM | Roadmaster S-Series Chassis
JJTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 06:52 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
CountryB's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 4,365
Like Josh said, the Panther came with the big Caterpillar engine. Some of the lower-tier models had Cummins engines. My SMC model listing shows the 2002-2005 models where built on the Roadmaster S-series chassis.

I don't know if that is accurate or not (the brochures are very inaccurate for the SMC-Monaco transition period), because the Beaver Marquis (Safari's top of line model in 2002-2005) and the Patriot Thunder were still using the Magnum D-series chassis (the "Blue Diamond"), which was basically the "Gillig chassis" SMC produced, up to 2005 . I would have thought the Marquis would have moved to the Roadmaster chassis before the Panther. But i don't know.

The serial number will tell all. If you can post it, we can decode it for you, or feel free to go the "Beaver chassis history-info link in my signature. The document linked to has the VIN decoder table for SMC and Monaco.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2002-2005 Safari Model line-up.JPG
Views:	7
Size:	28.4 KB
ID:	267335  
__________________
Mike ----- 2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder CAT C13 525HP, 42-ft Tag, with HydraLift
*SMC-Bvr-Mnco Chassis/Suspsn/Info https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbToxXYREK9YdBP08Jn
*SMC-Bvr-Mnco Wiring Diagrams https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
CountryB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 06:59 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kelowna BC
Posts: 47
Here is the window sticker that had me thinking it had a Cummins.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	B376165A-6FEE-4721-ACB6-033AA7F4D5E4.jpeg
Views:	7
Size:	111.0 KB
ID:	267393  
Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 07:17 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 168
We have the ISM500. Been great so far. Towing a Ford Explorer and fully loaded, around 47,000 pounds, have gotten almost 10mpg a time or two. Mountains knock it down to around 7.

Roadmiester
09 Dynasty Regal IV
Roadmiester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 07:26 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Blawless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 12
Did anyone notice the $12,600 42"plasma tv on the window sticker? Does the sticker actually belong to that coach. I guess there was some blatant overcharging back then on the higher end models?
__________________
B Lawless
2005 Coachmen Aurora 3380 MBS
Killaloe, Ontario
Blawless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2019, 08:13 PM   #10
Member
 
JJTL's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Kitchener, ON, Canada
Posts: 55
Well isn't that interesting. Window sticker almost creates more questions than it provides answers . I think in 2004 or 2005 the Panther had the option of the bigger C13 Cat (525hp), but never seen a Cummins. Wonder if it was a one off or a special order, or perhaps the window sticker doesn't match the coach? Look forward to finding out more when you have access to the coach. Keep us posted .

As an aside, we love our ISM 500, would actually be my personal preference over the C12. Very curious about the coach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blawless View Post
Did anyone notice the $12,600 42"plasma tv on the window sticker? Does the sticker actually belong to that coach. I guess there was some blatant overcharging back then on the higher end models?
The 42" plasma option I believe was a motorized drop down TV from the ceiling between the pilot chairs. Hence the increased cost of the option.
__________________
Josh & Amanda
BIG BLUE - The Family Coach
2001 Monaco Signature Series 42' Classic | 500HP ISM | Roadmaster S-Series Chassis
JJTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 05:21 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
CountryB's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 4,365
The Invoice says the Cummins is an "option to replace the Cat C12". So I guess its legitimate. I would have preferred the Cat engine. But to each his own.

Also interesting is the "Hinged Manual Wood Step Well Cover". What the heck is that?

Sounds like a very nice coach.
Good luck
__________________
Mike ----- 2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder CAT C13 525HP, 42-ft Tag, with HydraLift
*SMC-Bvr-Mnco Chassis/Suspsn/Info https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbToxXYREK9YdBP08Jn
*SMC-Bvr-Mnco Wiring Diagrams https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
CountryB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 07:31 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kelowna BC
Posts: 47
The TV option is a whole cabinet set up that replaces the recliner behind the passenger seat. I thought it was a bit pricey also.

The wood step well cover is because it is a mid entry door.

As far as the engine, I think either one would be acceptable in my opinion.

Are these Panthers pretty much a Dynasty with a bigger engine and different floor plan?
__________________
1999 National Tradewinds 7370 cat 3126B
2008 Saturn Vue Toad.
Kelowna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 11:47 AM   #13
Member
 
JJTL's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Kitchener, ON, Canada
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelowna View Post
Are these Panthers pretty much a Dynasty with a bigger engine and different floor plan?
That's probably a fair comparison to the Monaco lineup, I would maybe even consider it being closer to an Executive. Executive was basically a Dynasty with a big motor and larger drive axle.

2003 Dynasty: ISL400 Cummins | 20,000 lbs Drive axle | 44,600 lbs GVWR | S-series

2003 Executive: ISM500 Cummins | 23,000 lbs Drive Axle | 47,600 lbs GVWR | S-series

2003 Panther: C12 505 (ISM500) | 23,000 lbs Drive Axle | 47,600 lbs GVWR | S-series

This is more of a mechanical comparison, not sure about the interior finishes, features, etc. Panther's were pretty nice coaches inside if I recall. Maybe someone has a better idea of the original MSRP for each. The exterior design visually looks pretty close to the Dynasty. Those BMW/Lincoln style headlights were also used in the Signature and HR Navigator at the time.
__________________
Josh & Amanda
BIG BLUE - The Family Coach
2001 Monaco Signature Series 42' Classic | 500HP ISM | Roadmaster S-Series Chassis
JJTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 12:34 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NorCal
Posts: 1,449
Not sure if mid entry is as popular on resales compared to bus type entry. Panther is a beautiful coach.
__________________

__________________
Outbound
2002 Monaco Executive 500 ISM
2004 GMC 2500HD 4X4
Outbound is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cummins



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cummins ISM engine versus Cummins Non ISM engine gimlimike Newmar Owner's Forum 4 08-06-2017 05:39 AM
2003 Safari Panther slemnah Monaco Owner's Forum 3 12-24-2012 10:01 AM
2003 SAFARI Panther Model 4013 logansrun Monaco Owner's Forum 7 06-09-2012 09:46 AM
ISM 500 vs ISM II 500 Mike Canter Cummins Engines 3 11-08-2009 11:41 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×