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Old 02-21-2018, 02:47 PM   #1
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Alt-Fail, Hamsar relay

I've got an 06 38PDQ Camelot. I have been having trouble with the Alt-Fail and Buzzer coming on when there is a load on the engine. All the wiring has been checked: intact and going where it is supposed to (according to this site and other sources). The Alternator has be rebuilt and checks out.

Now I am looking at the Hamsar relay. I repaced it with a generic relay from the auto parts store and no change. I have read that this relay is a 6 volt relay where the generic one is 12 volt. I have looked up Hamsar and come up with a company that makes electrical devices including relays, but with no specifications. There have been two numbers given for this relay: 41120 and 42006.

Does anyone know the exact specification for this relay?
Does anyone know where to purchase this relay?
Does anyone have any other suggestions as to the solution to problem?

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 02-21-2018, 04:44 PM   #2
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Get a meter and check the ac voltage on the alternator three ac terminals. The symptoms indicate bad diodes where one or more of the three phase outputs are bad. The 6v alt fail relay is connected to one of those ac output terminals. If there is enough output on that terminal the relay will energize turning off the alt-fail light.
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:06 PM   #3
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Did you check the relay with a strong light and magnifier ? Might be a part number on it.

I would not discount the alternator not working properly if is acting up under load.

By load do you mean running the AC, headlights, etc.

If possible measure the voltage on the batteries under those conditions. If you are not getting a good 13.5 your alternator problems have not been solved.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:05 PM   #4
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Belt slipping due to failing tensioner. Routed wrong over the pullys.

Generator running causing higher voltage coming from the house batteries then the chassis batteries. That sets off the low voltage warning.
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:12 PM   #5
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The relay that was there is a Bosch. So, it was probably previously replaced.

By load, I mean as when going up an incline. Sometimes when it's warm, the alarm comes on going over a long overpass. It seems to be temperature related as it used to happen when the engine temp got over 200, but now it is going on when the temp is just above 195. I'm thinking of removing the buzzer.

The volt meters in the dash, on VMS, and alladin all read 13.8 volts while the alarm is sounding. I think the alternator is OK.

Thanks for the replies, Keep em coming.

Tom
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompn View Post
I've got an 06 38PDQ Camelot. I have been having trouble with the Alt-Fail and Buzzer coming on ...
What buzzer? I have no buzzer on my Ambassador, only the light.
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:48 PM   #7
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Does the engine have a belt driven clutch fan ?

If slipping, that would cause both issues. The fan clutch engages due to rising heat and that causes the whole belt system to slip and slow down.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tompn View Post
The relay that was there is a Bosch. So, it was probably previously replaced.

By load, I mean as when going up an incline. Sometimes when it's warm, the alarm comes on going over a long overpass. It seems to be temperature related as it used to happen when the engine temp got over 200, but now it is going on when the temp is just above 195. I'm thinking of removing the buzzer.

The volt meters in the dash, on VMS, and alladin all read 13.8 volts while the alarm is sounding. I think the alternator is OK.

Thanks for the replies, Keep em coming.

Tom
There is no buzzer alarm for the alternator. If you are getting the buzzer when climbing hills it is something else. If the alternator fail lamp is coming on I would be suspicious that wires are crossed somewhere.

Since this happens when you climb a grade but the engine temp is normal I would check the level of fluids in both the coolant tank and any hydraulic fluid tanks.

Bob
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:15 AM   #9
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With the voltages reported your alternator is supplying plenty of power.

With almost half a century of troubleshooting I found that replacing the obvious often fixed mysterious symptoms.

The obvious thing to me is getting the correct relay in place. A 12 volt relay may function but would be on the ragged edge of working at that low of a voltage.

If heat is causing the slightest drop in voltage from the alternator the relay may be dropping out. You might not notice a .25 volt drop but a relay might.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:52 AM   #10
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Yes, YC1. I am trying to find out where to get the correct relay. And, what the correct relay is. I've read that Monaco (REV) can supply a relay at about $50, but the 12 volt ones from the auto parts stores are just a few bucks, that doesn't seem right.

Does anyone know the make and model of the relay?
Does anyone know of where to purchase one of these?

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:28 AM   #11
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My Diplomat has a Hamsar 42006 relay. My wiring diagram calls this relay a 6V relay but Hamsar says this is a 24 volt relay on their data sheet. This 12 and 24 volt designation is referring to the nominal control voltage to operate the relay. A 12 volt relay only needs about 6 to 7 volts to make it operate. If you look at the wires going to this relay it is printed on the insulation what they are. Sometimes they are hard to understand where they are coming from and where they are going. Good luck, George
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:16 PM   #12
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Tom,
If your relay is bad you definitely need a 6V replacement. I found mine on Amazon:

TE Connectivity/Potter & Brumfield -1432873-1, Automotive Relay, SPDT, 6V, 40A, $9.66 as of Jan 2014.

Later I also saw equivalent ones on ebay.

Roy
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:49 AM   #13
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Thanks Roy. Just ordered one. They are still available. Will let you know in about a month when I go somewhere.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Tom
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Old 02-24-2018, 04:56 AM   #14
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Thanks Roy. Just ordered one. They are still available. Will let you know in about a month when I go somewhere.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Tom
If your ordered one on Amazon would you mind posting the link so I can put it in my files please.
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