RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-04-2019, 05:23 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Battery Charge Rate Experts please chime in

Battery charge rate experts please chime in on my battery charge rates and settings.

My batteries seen here are now 5 plus years old for sure maybe more.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_7790.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	376.4 KB
ID:	231023

Seen here are the settings on my Magnum
Click image for larger version

Name:	Magnum Energy MOntage.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	292.2 KB
ID:	231024



The issue is that in the last year the batteries seem to be using lots more water than ever before and I also see the battery cases are swelling around the posts and sides indicating overcharging issues.

I'm O.K. with replacing the batteries after 5 years of service but want to make sure that my charge settings are correct so that I don’t incur the same case swelling issue in short order.

Im pretty fuzzy on the " CHARGE RATE " setting

I know there are lots of replacement battery options but will try and use the same wet cell battery because them being decent quality & price and most likely I won’t own this coach 5 more years

Thanks in Advance

Happy Trails
__________________

__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-04-2019, 06:24 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
iluvuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: UT
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRoy View Post
Battery charge rate experts please chime in on my battery charge rates and settings.

My batteries seen here are now 5 plus years old for sure maybe more.

Attachment 231023

Seen here are the settings on my Magnum
Attachment 231024



The issue is that in the last year the batteries seem to be using lots more water than ever before and I also see the battery cases are swelling around the posts and sides indicating overcharging issues.

I'm O.K. with replacing the batteries after 5 years of service but want to make sure that my charge settings are correct so that I donít incur the same case swelling issue in short order.

Im pretty fuzzy on the " CHARGE RATE " setting

I know there are lots of replacement battery options but will try and use the same wet cell battery because them being decent quality & price and most likely I wonít own this coach 5 more years

Thanks in Advance

Happy Trails
Are those 6v or 12v batteries? How many of them do you have? The one in the pic is 230Ah. You have your magnum set for 1000Ah. Does that mean you have 4 of those?? That would be 920Ah not 1000Ah. Not enough data yet. I am concerned that the 1000Ah may be too high a setting.
__________________

__________________
Ed
2018 Palazzo 33.3
300W solar, 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee
iluvuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 07:27 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 375
Batteries can swell as they age and is not an indication of improper use. Same goes for terminal seals. Enough vibration, temperature extremes and strain from connected cables will compromise them eventually. Water use will go up as the end of life approaches and the more time and cycles you go, the harder it will be to reach full charge and keep water in them. The key data point is 5 plus years, which translates to they don't owe you anything. I don't know the specifics of the magnum charger and I'll let others comment on that but my observation would be you've run these batteries out before they ran out on you. Good job. If you're curious you could put a C/20 load on them and get an exact merit of Ah to see how close you are to end of life but at this stage of the game it may not matter.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Mark_K5LXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 07:55 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvuk View Post
Are those 6v or 12v batteries? How many of them do you have? The one in the pic is 230Ah. You have your magnum set for 1000Ah. Does that mean you have 4 of those?? That would be 920Ah not 1000Ah. Not enough data yet. I am concerned that the 1000Ah may be too high a setting.
Sorry I have 8 - 6vdc batteries

My calculations as with yours come out to 920Ah.

That said the next lower setting on Battery Ah Rating is 800 Ah
__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 08:07 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP View Post
Batteries can swell as they age and is not an indication of improper use. Same goes for terminal seals. Enough vibration, temperature extremes and strain from connected cables will compromise them eventually. Water use will go up as the end of life approaches and the more time and cycles you go, the harder it will be to reach full charge and keep water in them. The key data point is 5 plus years, which translates to they don't owe you anything. I don't know the specifics of the magnum charger and I'll let others comment on that but my observation would be you've run these batteries out before they ran out on you. Good job. If you're curious you could put a C/20 load on them and get an exact merit of Ah to see how close you are to end of life but at this stage of the game it may not matter.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Hello Mark.

How are the amp-hours calculated when using 8 - 6vdc Batteries?

My thinking was 8 X 230ah divided by 2 ( divided by 2 because of being 6 vdc )


If that is the correct way to do so the AH hours on my Magnum are set wrong and should be 920 Ah ( I just went out to the coach and looked at my Magnum and the next lower setting for Ah is 800Ah and 1000Ah is as high as it goes)

Im also trying to figure out the …. “ Charge Rate “ setting.


With 4 years of the same settings on my Magnum in the coach with no issues and batteries that Im sure are over 5 years old Im quite sure that as you stated the batteries are giving up the Ghost and if so? I have no intention of testing them if one is bad? I will just replace all 8.

I just want to make sure all my charge rate settings are correct before I spend $1k on new batteries to have the same issue.




Thanks for your input

Happy Trails
__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2019, 10:24 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
iluvuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: UT
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobRoy View Post
Sorry I have 8 - 6vdc batteries

My calculations as with yours come out to 920Ah.

That said the next lower setting on Battery Ah Rating is 800 Ah
I prefer to calculate capacity in Watt-hrs because Watt-hours are watt-hours whether it is a 12v system or 6v system, etc.

So, for 230ah battery (assuming they are 20 hr rated for the calculation) x 6 v equals= 1380 watt-hr per battery. X 8 batteries equals 11,040 watt-hours of electricity in that bank (at maximum capacity). 11,040 watt-hours in a 12v system (which I think you have) would be = 11,040 watt-hrs divided by 12v which equals 920 Ah stored in the bank at max. I don't know enough about your charger to know for sure if that will cause a problem to have it set at 1000 Ah capacity. It suspect it might slightly increase the charge rate but seriously doubt it is enough to damage batteries...just my thoughts. Also, realize, you only have about 20-50% of that 920Ah usable because you don't want to discharge your batteries below 50-80% of full charge. The less you discharge the more cycles you will get out of the batteries. Hope this helps a little. I think you just need new batteries...they are old...some if not all are probably dying.
__________________
Ed
2018 Palazzo 33.3
300W solar, 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee
iluvuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 07:09 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
pduggs's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Somewhere Warm
Posts: 603
Thanks for posting this Robroy. I too am concerned about the proper settings on the Magnum. I have read the Magum manuals several times, but they don’t seem to explain some of the settings very well...at least for a novice like me.

I installed new batteries last week, but don’t know how to do the settings on the remote. I just reset to default, until I get it figured out.

I hope some experts chime in.
__________________
2008 Dynasty Squire
Paul & Luci
Fulltimers
pduggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 08:47 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Stan&Jacquie's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 782
Hey Pdugs....Stan here. I'm not an expert but I can tell you this. Different battery types (flooded vs Agm vs gel vs lithium) have different charging requirements. Go to your manufactures website to learn the charging recommendation for your batts. I would set your Magnum to the amphr rating that is closest to yours. Setting at 1000 for 920 actual should be ok. See "handy bob.com" for an excellent discussion/recommendations on battery charging but be prepared to do some reading. Hey was an elec engineer and now lives off the grid totally dependent on solar. He is widely and highly respected among us solar folks. Equally important as charging is degree of draw down and water maintenance. Handy Bob will set you straight. Hope this helps. Good luck.
__________________
Stan & Jacquie
2007 Monaco Knight DFT 40'
2012 Equinox w/Air Force I, Blue Ox Alpha & Base, 750 Watts Solar.
Stan&Jacquie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 08:49 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Stan&Jacquie's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 782
Oooooops! Should have directed the above to RobRoy but Pduggs is welcome also!
__________________
Stan & Jacquie
2007 Monaco Knight DFT 40'
2012 Equinox w/Air Force I, Blue Ox Alpha & Base, 750 Watts Solar.
Stan&Jacquie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 09:38 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 375
Yeah, 920Ah is the final answer. From a troubleshooting perspective you'd test all 8 batteries separately and pass judgement at the unit level but from a practical perspective the set is used as a bank, so test it as a bank. My own method is to come up with a load I can easily repeat over time, and make a record of how the bank does from time to time. Since you have an inverter with a status panel you can easily apply a good charge, turn on/plug in a measured load and watch the bank voltage reach a given point. Doesn't necessarily have to be a C/20 load or run the bank down to 10.5V, just something you repeat consistently from test to test. An example would be to apply a full charge, then connect a simple load like a ceramic heater and note the time it takes to run the bank down to a specific voltage like 11.75V. Whenever you want to do a quick test just repeat the scenario and log the time. You might see some slight variations due to temperature or cycling activity but generally speaking it will be "close". When it starts dropping repeatedly and by a significant percentage you know something is up.

The above interim tests assume a healthy pack to start with, so when starting with an unknown you're pretty much stuck doing a measured capacity test. This would at a minimum mean a C/20 load applied after a complete charge cycle.

920/20=46A

Since you have an inverter and a means of displaying system draw I find the easiest way to dial in a specific load is to use a combination of incandescent bulbs. A handful of 100W, 50W and 25W bulbs in various combinations will get you there. Start the clock and see how close you get to 20 hours before the bank voltage reaches 10.5V. On an old pack it's not likely you'll hit 20 hours so the exercise is to see just where it lands - 75%, 50%, less? Only one way to know for sure. Even if it's only one or two stinkers in the bank you can't mix old and new batteries so if the bank capacity falls short of your requirement you'll have your justification for replacing the set. I personally consider anything north of 80% to be "good"/usable, 50%-80% is in decline and time to start shopping, and below 50% is failed.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Mark_K5LXP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 01:00 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
iluvuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: UT
Posts: 740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP View Post
Yeah, 920Ah is the final answer. From a troubleshooting perspective you'd test all 8 batteries separately and pass judgement at the unit level but from a practical perspective the set is used as a bank, so test it as a bank. My own method is to come up with a load I can easily repeat over time, and make a record of how the bank does from time to time. Since you have an inverter with a status panel you can easily apply a good charge, turn on/plug in a measured load and watch the bank voltage reach a given point. Doesn't necessarily have to be a C/20 load or run the bank down to 10.5V, just something you repeat consistently from test to test. An example would be to apply a full charge, then connect a simple load like a ceramic heater and note the time it takes to run the bank down to a specific voltage like 11.75V. Whenever you want to do a quick test just repeat the scenario and log the time. You might see some slight variations due to temperature or cycling activity but generally speaking it will be "close". When it starts dropping repeatedly and by a significant percentage you know something is up.

The above interim tests assume a healthy pack to start with, so when starting with an unknown you're pretty much stuck doing a measured capacity test. This would at a minimum mean a C/20 load applied after a complete charge cycle.

920/20=46A

Since you have an inverter and a means of displaying system draw I find the easiest way to dial in a specific load is to use a combination of incandescent bulbs. A handful of 100W, 50W and 25W bulbs in various combinations will get you there. Start the clock and see how close you get to 20 hours before the bank voltage reaches 10.5V. On an old pack it's not likely you'll hit 20 hours so the exercise is to see just where it lands - 75%, 50%, less? Only one way to know for sure. Even if it's only one or two stinkers in the bank you can't mix old and new batteries so if the bank capacity falls short of your requirement you'll have your justification for replacing the set. I personally consider anything north of 80% to be "good"/usable, 50%-80% is in decline and time to start shopping, and below 50% is failed.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Great advice! I agree!
__________________
Ed
2018 Palazzo 33.3
300W solar, 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee
iluvuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 01:13 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan&Jacquie View Post
Hey Pdugs....Stan here. I'm not an expert but I can tell you this. Different battery types (flooded vs Agm vs gel vs lithium) have different charging requirements. Go to your manufactures website to learn the charging recommendation for your batts. I would set your Magnum to the amphr rating that is closest to yours. Setting at 1000 for 920 actual should be ok. See "handy bob.com" for an excellent discussion/recommendations on battery charging but be prepared to do some reading. Hey was an elec engineer and now lives off the grid totally dependent on solar. He is widely and highly respected among us solar folks. Equally important as charging is degree of draw down and water maintenance. Handy Bob will set you straight. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Thank You

Happy Trails
__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 01:15 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP View Post
Yeah, 920Ah is the final answer. From a troubleshooting perspective you'd test all 8 batteries separately and pass judgement at the unit level but from a practical perspective the set is used as a bank, so test it as a bank. My own method is to come up with a load I can easily repeat over time, and make a record of how the bank does from time to time. Since you have an inverter with a status panel you can easily apply a good charge, turn on/plug in a measured load and watch the bank voltage reach a given point. Doesn't necessarily have to be a C/20 load or run the bank down to 10.5V, just something you repeat consistently from test to test. An example would be to apply a full charge, then connect a simple load like a ceramic heater and note the time it takes to run the bank down to a specific voltage like 11.75V. Whenever you want to do a quick test just repeat the scenario and log the time. You might see some slight variations due to temperature or cycling activity but generally speaking it will be "close". When it starts dropping repeatedly and by a significant percentage you know something is up.

The above interim tests assume a healthy pack to start with, so when starting with an unknown you're pretty much stuck doing a measured capacity test. This would at a minimum mean a C/20 load applied after a complete charge cycle.

920/20=46A

Since you have an inverter and a means of displaying system draw I find the easiest way to dial in a specific load is to use a combination of incandescent bulbs. A handful of 100W, 50W and 25W bulbs in various combinations will get you there. Start the clock and see how close you get to 20 hours before the bank voltage reaches 10.5V. On an old pack it's not likely you'll hit 20 hours so the exercise is to see just where it lands - 75%, 50%, less? Only one way to know for sure. Even if it's only one or two stinkers in the bank you can't mix old and new batteries so if the bank capacity falls short of your requirement you'll have your justification for replacing the set. I personally consider anything north of 80% to be "good"/usable, 50%-80% is in decline and time to start shopping, and below 50% is failed.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

Thanks & Happy Trails
__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2019, 01:16 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
RobRoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan&Jacquie View Post
Hey Pdugs....Stan here. I'm not an expert but I can tell you this. Different battery types (flooded vs Agm vs gel vs lithium) have different charging requirements. Go to your manufactures website to learn the charging recommendation for your batts. I would set your Magnum to the amphr rating that is closest to yours. Setting at 1000 for 920 actual should be ok. See "handy bob.com" for an excellent discussion/recommendations on battery charging but be prepared to do some reading. Hey was an elec engineer and now lives off the grid totally dependent on solar. He is widely and highly respected among us solar folks. Equally important as charging is degree of draw down and water maintenance. Handy Bob will set you straight. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Thanks & Happy Trails
__________________

__________________
2004 HR Navagator 500 ISM
RobRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery size to meet charge rate fasteddie313 RV Systems & Appliances 5 02-21-2016 11:17 AM
What is your solar charge rate at this time of year? CountryFit Going Green 38 02-17-2016 09:40 AM
Float charge rate? brobox Entegra Owner's Forum 19 04-09-2015 11:45 AM
Battery charge rate & absorb charge time loisjop Entegra Owner's Forum 0 11-01-2014 02:15 PM
What is the service rate coach manufacture charge you? laurier MH-General Discussions & Problems 11 04-29-2013 08:52 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×