Beaver/Safari owners - electrical issue - need help!

[VanDiemen23]

The BAC site is down so no opportunity to join....

The whole story (and I've seen couple other posts that look like similar issues)

This started with an alternator failure. Last five hours were spent running on batteries only, last hour in the dark, with no headlights (DW was out front in the Honda lighting the way). Stuff that went on doing those hours correlated with things I'd seen on a previous cross-country trip and before and told me that it had been on the fritz for more than two years!

Weekend #1 - Got the coach back to Jax and in its storage unit, and plugged in. Had to build a platform so I could lay over the motor to work. Got the old unit off - a Leece-Neville, and took it to a auto-electric place for a re-build. Also ordered a new serpentine belt.

Auto-electric guy calls me back and says for $90 more than re-building my 85A unit, I could get a 200A Delco. Sold!

Weekend #2 - Installed new alternator only to find it didn't fit. Did a bunch of online research. Took unit back to Auto-electric and asked for a different part number. Installed a new big-ass relay so I don’t have to tap it with a dowel anymore to get it to tick over.

Auto electric guy calls and says the same part showed up. Did some more online research. A J180 mount actually has TWO different sizes and no unique designator. L/N uses the big one and Delco the small one. Evidently the mounts on the CAT are adjustable for either.

Weekend #3 - Picked up belt and alternator, went to storage unit and installed both after figuring out how to adjust the CAT bracket (pretty slick actually). Batteries too dead to turn the motor over. Charger on MH only charges the house batteries, trickle charger on the chassis batteries too small to get them to recover from the deep discharge. Go back home. Strip the race car start cart and drag the mess back out to the storage unit. Charge chassis batteries on 15A for several hours, as well as hooked the house batteries up the the chassis batteries with jumpers. Got the genny started, then the main diesel. Not enough juice left to get the Allison to shift. The new alternator is not working - 0V at the isolator center lug.

Ordered two new chassis batteries from NAPA.

Weekend #4 - installed the chassis batteries, fired up the coach, and drove it about 20 minutes to my house, and plugged it in. On Monday, took it to auto-electric to troubleshoot new alternator.

Problem was that what they thought was a "sense" wire is actually the wire needed to get the Delco to self-excite when you use an isolator. Auto-electric charged the batteries and I drove it home - Higher voltage than it's had since I purchased it!

Weekend #5 - went to start the coach to drive it back to the storage unit, and it was completely dead. Hit the boost switch and a house battery blew up.

The chassis batteries wouldn't recover, so I ordered new chassis batteries, new golf cart batteries for the house side, and a new amp-l-start charge diverter so that the chassis batteries have more charging priority.

Weekend #6 - removed the battery tray to cleanup all the rust from the battery explosion and 17 years of use. Removal was a challenge. How they got the thing in escapes me. The assembly had two bolt heads rendering it wider than the compartment it was in that had to be sawzalled off. The slide couldn't be removed from the installed position and together they weighed 40 lbs. Several hours with a paintbrush and die grinder later, it's no longer rusty and the slide tray is removable. Added a sense line to the alternator.

Weekend #7 - installed the new charge diverter, installed the tray, cleaned up all the cable connections, and installed the house batteries first. On hookup, noticeable spark despite everything as disconnected as possible, breakers pulled, etc. Also, chassis battery connections show 12V..... hmmmmm. Spent several hours moving about filthy cables and probing with a couple of voltmeters. Nothing conclusive. Disconnected house batteries and installed chassis batteries. 12V appears on house battery connector.... More hmmmmm.

Figured the Isolator was fried. Disconnected house side of the isolator. Stray voltage disappears from everywhere it wasn't supposed to be. Ordered new isolator.

Fired up the diesel and got 13.5V to the chassis batteries with no sense line connected, 14.2 with the sense line. Instruments all have a "new normal"!

Installed new isolator, the Cole-Hersey with a fourth terminal. Was totally confused by several posts that tried to explain how to hook it up and why, including the manufacturer's instructions. finally figured it out:

The Delco 28SI can be excited via the "I" wire or self-excited via it's output cable. by putting 12V on the 4th lug of the isolator, 12 V is switched on to the center lug of the isolator and the alternator self-excites. It was here where I figured out what caused all my problems:

The "I" wire to the alternator is supposed to be ignition switched. Apparently, it is not - it's hot all the time. Thus, when the Auto-electric guys hooked up the alternator correctly, current flowed from the chassis batteries through the alternator and the isolator and into the coach batteries, draining the chassis batteries to the basement in just a couple of days. the huge current draw caused by actuating the boost relay lit off the hydrogen in a house battery and that's why it blew up.

So after all of that, if you're still with me - here's my question:

Does anybody have electrical diagrams for a late 90's Beaver Monterey/Cat? I have been unable to find anything, only some online docs for a 95 Patriot, which gives me a general idea of how beaver did things, but nothing specific.

I need to find an ignition switched wire - OR - figure out why the excite wire that went to the alternator is not switching. There's a big cole-hersee relay on a frame rail above the battery box but I have no idea what it's for - with the hydraulic pump and all the extra wiring for the solar controller and the wad of extra wiring for the CAT back there it's almost impossible to dig thru and find stuff. Something could be stuck "on" but without a real schematic it's pretty hard to figure out - even with the excellent method Beaver used to print circuit info on the wires.

[VanDiemen23]

Forgot to mention, it's a 99 Monterey.

[RustyTools]

Sorry, can't help with the wiring diagrams (differnet coach and vintage). But I am amazed at your perserverence and diligence in tracking down the issues. Kudos to you, sir!!

[VanDiemen23]

Bump - 118 views, no love?

[Nasdaqsam]

I have an 04 Monterey that had/have similar issues with. Mine were caused by batteries being hooked up back wards. Still chasing little issues.

I was able to get schematics from REV for mine but first they are not very helpful as a lot of stuff is just not on them and second they are not even correct. They had the ones for my exact build and are still wrong. They show a wire off the starter to the electric jacks. Mine doesn't have electric jacks.

Not sure the schematics even if you found them would help.

I also went through the whole LH/Delco thing except mines a Cummins so had to have the right alternator. I was getting a dead short off the old one.

Check the big fuses carefully I had one blown that tested as ok. Also check the relays at the base of the fuse block (over the batteries) one of those should be ignition.

Good luck.

[VanDiemen23]

I finally got it solved.

I went back and read all the threads started by me and the majority were electrical and related to this specific problem over the years.

I'd say this started with a bad design. The original design had a Heart Echo charger that was house battery priority. The original house batteries were not great, which led to the failure of the chassis batteries.

Finally, after the second set, I got rid of the Heart and replaced it with a Schumacher trickle charger - which worked until this last incident.

The original Leese-Neville never could get either of the batteries to full charge either, because it couldn't compensate for the voltage drop across the isolator. I believe the wire that went to the LN was a sense wire since it was hot all the time - but the output was always very low compared to this Delco. The LN would have been fine with a relay-type isolator setup.

I never could easily find a switched ignition signal in the rear harness. When I put in a 7-pin trailer connector years back I used a spare wire in the harness that comes out behind the right taillight for the breakaway battery charge circuit. That one runs from an automatic circuit breaker in the electrical bay. I tee'd off that signal to get the switched line for the alternator field. I would rather have used something else, but that was what I could access.

It's pretty amazing now. Alternator puts 15 into the isolator, so both the house and chassis batteries fully charge. with the AMP-L-Start instead of the Heart, the chassis batteries charge at a significant rate and then the house batteries, so I'll always have power to start either the diesel or the genset.

I may end up with the same schematic set that you have. I called Beaver Coach Sales up in Oregon and asked to talk to their Chassis electrical guy, and the service receptionist sent me off to REV. The guy at REV was very helpful - they just don't know a whole lot about the Beaver/Safari line yet.

I'm done with Beaver Coach Sales - overpriced parts (if they have them) and I swear in 10 years of calls, I've never gotten a call back after leaving a message.

[puttin]

VanDiemen23,

Hi there- you're way ahead of me as far as understanding your coach but the Amp-L-Start was designed to take a low amperage amount of current from your house batteries to your chassis ones. It sounds like you have it connected the opposite way...is that correct? Maybe it doesn't matter but I wanted to check in. As someone else said- your patience is commendable.

[VanDiemen23]

The Heart Echo charger operates by sending house battery charging to the chassis batteries - if the house batteries are old nothing ever gets to the chassis batteries. I call that house priority

The Amp-L- start operates the opposite - it sends charge to the chassis batteries first. I call that chassis priority.

I suppose it all depends on how folks want to hook things up. Seems like the majority of chargers hook to the house batteries since they flow both ways (charge and invert). Then you get these "follower chargers" that attempt to get charge to the other side.

[R&J]

This link may be helpful showing the wiring
http://www.serenitysys.com/beaver/Be...0Diagrams).pdf

Rich

[VanDiemen23]

That diagram is close. i've used it for years to get an idea, but in this case the specifics were very important and not represented on that diagram.