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Old 10-09-2016, 11:42 PM   #1
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Buying Used: Help with identifying what Monaco/Beaver lines to search for

We want to search for higher end Monaco (Signature?) and Beaver (Patriot, Marquis?) Some items that draw us to these include:


* Larger cargo capacity (I think - due to higher axle capacities for these lines)
* Aqua-Hot
* Residential Refrigerator (on some and assuming upgrade is straightforward)
* Room for separate Washer/Dryer (on some)

We're looking for ~2005-2007 model years and 40-42 feet long.

Some questions:

1) Was IFS offered in and of these models.
2) Is it true that IFS would result in a better turning radius.
3) Are there any big issues to be aware of for these years?
4) Are there any places to search for coaches that are Monaco/Beaver specific?
5) Have I identified the right lines for higher end Beaver and Monaco in these years
6) Does anyone have any CAT scale weight info for any of these coaches so we can get an idea of what they weigh?


Thank You!!

- Mike
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:14 AM   #2
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There are some great dealers in Oregon who carry these. Or Motorhomes of Texas carries high end rigs. I looked for 10 months trying to find a nice Beaver Coach. Couldn't find one in my price range. A buddy of mine just bought a 95 Beaver Marquis for $20k. I paid $30k for my 96 CC. All you can do is keep looking online. You'll find one eventually...😜


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Old 10-10-2016, 07:13 PM   #3
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Here is the Monaco website where you can down load the brochures for the model & year you are interested in.

Monaco RV Brochures – Monaco Coach Luxury RVs – Class A Motorhomes | Monaco Coach

I do not know of a source for info on Beavers

The Signature is top of the line in the Monaco lineup followed by Executive and Dynasty. All 3 of these have similar amenities, and if equipped with a tag axle would have similar carrying capacities.

Once advantage with Monaco is the support and service that is still available. They still support the older coaches via phone or email. I have used this service several times in the last couple years and have been very satisfied.
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:09 PM   #4
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Some answers:



1) Was IFS offered in and of these models? No, these are built on a Roadmaster chassis with a solid front axle.


2) Is it true that IFS would result in a better turning radius. No, the turn radius is tied to the front wheel turn angle and the wheelbase.



3) Are there any big issues to be aware of for these years? Look for a coach that has been well taken care of. Theses coaches (as well as all other new coaches) were delivered new with lots of issues and developed more over the years. Try to find one that someone addressed the issues rather than ignoring them.



4) Are there any places to search for coaches that are Monaco/Beaver specific? Try this web site, RV Trader, and RVT.com.



5) Have I identified the right lines for higher end Beaver and Monaco in these years. Yes, you should also look at the Holiday Rambler Navigator and the Monaco Executive. The Beaver coaches will have mostly Cat engines with a few Detroit Diesels while the Signature, Navigator, and Executive will have a mix of Cummins ISM, Cummins ISX, with a few Detroit Diesel engines.



6) Does anyone have any CAT scale weight info for any of these coaches so we can get an idea of what they weigh? Look at the weights in the brochures for a ball park figure. The brochure will also break down front, rear, and tag weight capacity. These are big heavy coaches and all will gross around 40-50k pounds.




Suggestion: If you are hung up on an independent front suspension, take a look at Country Coach Magna/Infinity (Dynomax chassis)as well as some of the high end coaches built on a Spartan chassis. Drive a few of them and then go drive a high end Monaco coach and let us know what you think.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekim View Post
We want to search for higher end Monaco (Signature?) and Beaver (Patriot, Marquis?) Some items that draw us to these include:


* Larger cargo capacity (I think - due to higher axle capacities for these lines)
* Aqua-Hot
* Residential Refrigerator (on some and assuming upgrade is straightforward)
* Room for separate Washer/Dryer (on some)

We're looking for ~2005-2007 model years and 40-42 feet long.

Some questions:

1) Was IFS offered in and of these models.
2) Is it true that IFS would result in a better turning radius.
3) Are there any big issues to be aware of for these years?
4) Are there any places to search for coaches that are Monaco/Beaver specific?
5) Have I identified the right lines for higher end Beaver and Monaco in these years
6) Does anyone have any CAT scale weight info for any of these coaches so we can get an idea of what they weigh?


Thank You!!

- Mike
You have already been given some good answers - I will add a few other things to the mix. First, my 2006 Beaver Patriot Thunder with full fuel and water tank plus what I carry in it for travel tips in at 42,000 lbs.

The top of the line Monaco chassis is the S Series. The RR10 looks similar and was used on Dynasty and Camelot coaches, and some Holiday Ramblers (not positive on this) but what you want is an S-Series if you can. It has a steel superstructure that makes the coach stiffer, and stiffness is your friend.

IFS is a sales point, not a drivability issue. The S Series chassis was as good as it got short of a Prevost.

I have been told one thing to consider - in the 2005 -2007 era the EPA mandated changes to how fiberglass was manufactured, and the companies that made the panels didn't perfect the new formula right away. The result is a tendency for the paint to craze (fine cracks in the finish) because the fiberglass continues to off-gas for many years. You can re-paint and it will eventually come back.

This affected most coaches made in that era.
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post

The Signature is top of the line in the Monaco lineup followed by Executive and Dynasty. All 3 of these have similar amenities, and if equipped with a tag axle would have similar carrying capacities.

Once advantage with Monaco is the support and service that is still available. They still support the older coaches via phone or email. I have used this service several times in the last couple years and have been very satisfied.
Thank you for the break down in models. This is helpful. It's good to know there is still a support network in place too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
2) Is it true that IFS would result in a better turning radius. No, the turn radius is tied to the front wheel turn angle and the wheelbase.
What is the turn angle for these. coaches?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
5) Have I identified the right lines for higher end Beaver and Monaco in these years. Yes, you should also look at the Holiday Rambler Navigator and the Monaco Executive. The Beaver coaches will have mostly Cat engines with a few Detroit Diesels while the Signature, Navigator, and Executive will have a mix of Cummins ISM, Cummins ISX, with a few Detroit Diesel engines.


Are there any knowing issues with one engine or the other in the 2005-2007 model years? For example I know there are some issues with Cummins ISX in 2007-??? - which would impact 2008+ model years.

We're also looking to avoid DPF engines (so we can use fuel in Mexico). I assume that all the engines pre 2007 are DPF free and can use "old school" diesel fuel?


Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
6) Does anyone have any CAT scale weight info for any of these coaches so we can get an idea of what they weigh? Look at the weights in the brochures for a ball park figure. The brochure will also break down front, rear, and tag weight capacity. These are big heavy coaches and all will gross around 40-50k pounds.

I've seen lots of cases where the front axle is overloaded on other manufacturers coaches. I'm just trying to make sure these coaches are ok in the front. The lack of tile and then 15160 lb front axle should be ok, but if I can get some real scale values it would help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a View Post
Suggestion: If you are hung up on an independent front suspension, take a look at Country Coach Magna/Infinity (Dynomax chassis)as well as some of the high end coaches built on a Spartan chassis. Drive a few of them and then go drive a high end Monaco coach and let us know what you think.

I'm not hung up on IFS. I'm really only concerned about turning radius.




Quote:
Originally Posted by distaff View Post
First, my 2006 Beaver Patriot Thunder with full fuel and water tank plus what I carry in it for travel tips in at 42,000 lbs.
Thanks! You don't have the individual axle weights do you? Are you carrying for full time travel?



Quote:
Originally Posted by distaff View Post
The top of the line Monaco chassis is the S Series. The RR10 looks similar and was used on Dynasty and Camelot coaches, and some Holiday Ramblers (not positive on this) but what you want is an S-Series if you can. It has a steel superstructure that makes the coach stiffer, and stiffness is your friend.
I'll look out for the S Series.



Quote:
Originally Posted by distaff View Post
IFS is a sales point, not a drivability issue. The S Series chassis was as good as it got short of a Prevost.
I'm not stuck on IFS. We do want a coach with good "bones".



Quote:
Originally Posted by distaff View Post
I have been told one thing to consider - in the 2005 -2007 era the EPA mandated changes to how fiberglass was manufactured, and the companies that made the panels didn't perfect the new formula right away. The result is a tendency for the paint to craze (fine cracks in the finish) because the fiberglass continues to off-gas for many years. You can re-paint and it will eventually come back.

This affected most coaches made in that era.
Thanks for this, I wasn't aware of this issue. This is a little confusing. If the paint is cracking due to off-gassing then it seems like after 10 years the off-gassing would stop, so the issue would not come back if repainted.
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:10 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekim View Post
T
What is the turn angle for these. coaches?
I found in an '07 Signature brochure 50 degrees. Can I assume they are all the same?
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Old 10-12-2016, 09:23 AM   #8
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The off gassing problem has been going on for years. We had a 95 Dynasty that had some minor checking only in the colored areas of the painted stripes and not the white. My current coach is a lighter color and is no worse or better than the 95, light checking in the dark colored striping and not the lighter color. I have the 525hp ISX and has been trouble free, the problem ISX has been mostly the 650hp and they have a DPF on them. These coaches of this era were built like tanks and ride and drive like Cadillacs. Just my biased pinion.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:38 AM   #9
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It's a steep learning curve. First, you should be able to operate a newer DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) coach on diesel fuel from Mexico. Fill the DEF tank before going into Mexico and keep a few gallons in the storage bay. I've heard horror stories about sulfur content in Mexican diesel, but most of us have not had any issues. Also, last time I was down there, diesel was cheap and they even washed my windshield!

My 45' coach will turn almost as sharp as my older 34' coach. The 45' coach as a higher front wheel turn angle and the rear tag lifts which shortens the wheelbase.

Like Randy said, the Cummins ISX 650 has had some issues, but the 525 and 600 are great. Lots of folks with the 650 think they are great too.

A 2008 model coach is built on a 2007 chassis usually with a 2007 model engine (2008 coaches started selling in Jul 2007). In my search I even saw a 2009 with a pre-DEF engine.

I'm not aware of any front axle overloading issues with the 10 air bag Roadmaster S series chassis. Again, like Randy says they are very well built. The Roadmaster chassis roots go back to a Chrysler engineering design for a military vehicle.

Most other RV manufacturers purchase a chassis from someone like Spartan and then build the coach on top of it. Monaco had total control over both chassis and coach design. You will see a gradual increase in load capacity with each new year model.

Monaco added an interior height increase to models starting in 2005. It really opens up the interior and can lessen the claustrophobic feel.

Start looking online and then make a list of must haves and nice to haves. Look nationwide. We flew to Dallas and toured TX twice, went to FL, Phoenix, north and southern CA and even a few other odd places. Watch pricing as it’s all over the place (the same make year model varies by $100k). You will learn something from each coach you look at.




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Old 10-12-2016, 12:54 PM   #10
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So tapping into the IRV2 knowledge base...

Can anyone here tell me the difference between a Roadmaster RR10S chassis found on Monaco coaches and the Roasmaster M10S chassis found on Beaver coaches.

I'm currently looking at a Patriot Thunder. The 2005 brochure I found online says it has a "Roadmaster M10S-Series" chassis, but I can find no information on this chassis. I did read somewhere that the "M" chassis is the Magnum chassis that Roadmaster acquired when Monaco bought Safari/Beaver.

Can anyone shed a little light on the M10S chassis... or maybe point me in a direction?

BillB
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Old 10-12-2016, 11:15 PM   #11
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Answering some stuff in a sort of random way:
  • I don't have the individual weights - lost the bit of paper but I've weighed it a couple of times and it was comfortably under the axle and tire limits on the front axle. I weighed each side of the axle to make sure no tire was over the limit.
  • In the Beaver coaches they used the Magum chassis prior to 2005, can't say for sure when they switched to the Roadmaster S Series, and it is not simple to tell. You have to look at the chassis. Monaco told me mine was built on a Magnum, but I confirmed by examining the chassis that it is an S Series.
  • Off gassing is a problem with all fiberglass, but it was more sever in the transition period, and it seemed to continue beyond 10 years.
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:55 AM   #12
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I have a 2005 Safari Panther and will be happy to discuss any questions you have about it. Pm me and I will give you my phone number.
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:34 AM   #13
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distaff:

"...I confirmed by examining the chassis that it is an S Series..."

What did you look for?

How was it notated and where was it labeled "S Series?"
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtwinwilly View Post
So tapping into the IRV2 knowledge base...

Can anyone here tell me the difference between a Roadmaster RR10S chassis found on Monaco coaches and the Roasmaster M10S chassis found on Beaver coaches.

I'm currently looking at a Patriot Thunder. The 2005 brochure I found online says it has a "Roadmaster M10S-Series" chassis, but I can find no information on this chassis. I did read somewhere that the "M" chassis is the Magnum chassis that Roadmaster acquired when Monaco bought Safari/Beaver.

Can anyone shed a little light on the M10S chassis... or maybe point me in a direction?

BillB
You are correct, the Roadmaster "M" chassis is the Beaver Magnum chassis built in Harrisburg OR and shipped over to Bend for assembly with the house. Once they moved production to Coburg all that stopped.

I have never seen the M10S designation, but that must have been a Monaco modification to indicate that there are 10 air bags on the chassis you are looking at. I guess that is to distinguish that chassis from ones like mine that apparently only have 8 air bags. (I just looked at my documentation and that is all I have.)

Unfortunately, Fleetwood has taken down all the Monaco history that used to be available for lookup. (I wish I had known they were going to do that as I would have downloaded all the manuals just for reference.)
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