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Old 10-26-2019, 07:59 PM   #1
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Carry extra filter, New Problem HELP

Found the second filter, same area with oil fill. I changed the filter, tried the 30 seconds on thirty seconds off for 10 mins. Will not start, tried again still no start. Took filter off, picked up gallon of diesel, filled filter and still no start.

Any ideas? Big warning signs, DO NOT USE STARTER FLUID, open plane in preheater.

I am sorry that I found it!!!!!
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:02 PM   #2
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Sounds like you'll need to open a couple of injectors and bleed air. Should be some write ups about it available for your engine type.

Wait...there was no fuel in filter with your key on procedure? Sounds like maybe you're doing that wrong. I remember on my Cummins I couldn't just turn the key...but had to engage starter for fuel pump.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:31 PM   #3
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How long are you letting the starter crank the engine over?
Let it crank the engine for about 15 seconds. If it doesn't start, just let the key return to the run position. Leave it there for a minute, then repeat.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VegasFoodGuy View Post
Found the second filter, same area with oil fill. I changed the filter, tried the 30 seconds on thirty seconds off for 10 mins. Will not start, tried again still no start. Took filter off, picked up gallon of diesel, filled filter and still no start.

Any ideas? Big warning signs, DO NOT USE STARTER FLUID, open plane in preheater.

I am sorry that I found it!!!!!
Hi VegasFoodGuy,

Although you may be sorry that you found it right now, I'm pretty sure that you'll eventually be glad that you did. Fuel filters (both primary and secondary) should be changed ever 20,000 miles or once a tear, whichever comes first.

Typically, the primary filter (the one by the air dryer) needs to be pre-filled with clean fuel, the secondary (the one by the oil filler) doesn't.

Cycling the ignition on for 15 seconds, then off and repeat 5 or 6 times should push fuel thru the primary and into the secondary and then to the fuel rail and injectors.

The first start after the fuel filter change can be a little slower than normal. Nothing to be too concerned about. Don't be afraid to engage the starter motor for longer than normal while you wait for the start.

You're absolutely correct about the prohibition on using starter fluid. Although there's not an open flame, there is an electric grid heater to warm the intake air to the engine that's activated for a cold start. Apparently there's a risk of igniting the ether starting fluid when it contacts the electric grid heater.

Take care,
Stu

P.S. Please don't rush right in to removing injectors to try to bleed air out of the fuel rail. Way too soon to go that extreme.
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Old 10-26-2019, 08:54 PM   #5
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When you do the 30 sec thing can you hear the lift pump running ?
I don't wait 30 sec , as soon as I hear the pump stop I turn the key
off then back on for another run of the pump .

For some reason you are not getting fuel .

Are you sure the gaskets are installed same as before ?
I have heard of 2 gaskets ( o rings ) accidentally being
on the center threaded post .
The old one was still up there and a new one installed too
This will allow it to suck air



Sometime people have had to use an air blower at the fuel fill neck
with a rag to help it hold some pressure

Not a lot of pressure is needed , I would guess 10 or 15 psi

Use the pressure to push fuel into the filters and pumps .
If you have a helper try the air pressure for a min then have them try
to start it .

Ray
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Old 10-26-2019, 09:04 PM   #6
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I hope you do not have the same problem I had after changing filters. Coach would not start tried everything I could think of including trying to pressurize the fuel tank to force fuel into filters. nothing worked had to be towed to a repair facility. they had to replace lift pump not an inexpensive fix.
If you crack the inlet fitting on the secondary filter you might see that there is no fuel being pumped to secondary filter.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:15 PM   #7
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Thanks `everyone, I will try your suggestions in the AM.

Terry
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide View Post
How long are you letting the starter crank the engine over?
Let it crank the engine for about 15 seconds. If it doesn't start, just let the key return to the run position. Leave it there for a minute, then repeat.
Hi VegasFoodGuy,

Try this one FIRST.

It's by far the easiest answer...and...the most likely to prove successful.

Although it's possible that you've suffered a failed (expensive) lift pump, that's EXTREMELY unlikely. Thousands of fuel filters have been changed without requiring lift pump replacement. Not very likely that you'll join that exclusive club.

Just hang on the starter...15 seconds seems like a loooong time...it's not.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:33 AM   #9
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Terry,

FWIW, I once had the same issue as you when I put on a WIX filter. I then picked up original Fleetgaurd filters and it started right up using the same procedure as the WIX attempts.

I notice others use different micron filters but with these systems being so close on tolerance I'd use exactly what Cummins recommends and not aftermarket. I had the wrong secondary filter on my ISL once (more restrictive) and it fit perfectly but caused a check engine light often. This was installed by Transwest Service Center.

Good luck to you!

Doug
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiDav View Post
Sometime people have had to use an air blower at the fuel fill neck
with a rag to help it hold some pressure

Not a lot of pressure is needed , I would guess 10 or 15 psi

Ray
Hmmm... The fuel supply and return lines both connect to the same tank, right?
So pressurizing the tank will pressurize the fuel supply, but also the return, with zero net pressure to force fuel through the system. Unless the return line is disconnected and run into a bucket.

Personally, I would proceed very cautiously when pressurizing a big rectangular tank... Marine fuel tanks are pressure tested at 3psi, I believe. I'd bet money that 15psi in a motorhome fuel tank would destroy the tank and cause great sadness.

The first time I replaced my MH filters I replaced both at the same time, thinking the system would work past it. It did not...
Now I know I can get by with changing ONE filter dry, but definitely not both.

I wound up spending an hour turning the key on to let the lift pump prime the system. After getting nowhere with that approach I tried filling the filters with fuel. Eventually I took the secondary filter back off and REFILLED it with fuel after air from the rest of the system displaced the fuel in it.

Every time I went through that exercise on my boat... I planned to install a manifold and a vane pump right by the tank. That way I could flip a switch and force a large amount of fuel through the system any time air got in it. Never got around to it of course...

I hope you get it going!
Cheers,
Walter
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
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P.S. Please don't rush right in to removing injectors to try to bleed air out of the fuel rail. Way too soon to go that extreme.
Nobody mentioned removing injectors...but cracking open the line at the injector. This is done all the time...and there is no harm in doing that.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:42 AM   #12
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It doesn't seem to be mentioned, Were you changing the fuel filters for a reason ?

If for a no start condition, fuel filters are typically not the cause.

If for low power or scheduled maintenance, that's a reason.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:27 AM   #13
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Nobody mentioned removing injectors...but cracking open the line at the injector. This is done all the time...and there is no harm in doing that.
Hi Rich,

Thanks for catching that. You're absolutely right.

Still, I'd bet that Terry will be able to solve his problem without any wrenching. Pretty sure that Terry has a rear radiator and I'd guess that it's lots easier to just crank a little longer than it is to get to the fuel rail.

Of course, cracking open a line at an injector is one course of action. I think that I'd cycle the lift pump (as has been suggested) and then do a little cranking way before I'd be cracking open a fuel line.

When did Cummins go to a high pressure common rail? Aren't there some cautions about cracking open fuel lines with the high pressures associated? Everyone has a different level of comfort with engine maintenance/repair. Personally, I don't think I'd go beyond filter replacement in the fuel system. Some of that stuff gets pretty expensive pretty fast.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
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It doesn't seem to be mentioned, Were you changing the fuel filters for a reason ?

If for a no start condition, fuel filters are typically not the cause.

If for low power or scheduled maintenance, that's a reason.
On a separate, but, related thread (Carry extra Fuel Filter, My experience), the OP indicated that he'd experienced low power, rough running under load.

Take care,
Stu
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