Continuous duty isolator?

[Rock342]

So, I have determined that my 2004 Windsor has a battery maintainer circuit for keeping the chassis battery charged while plugged in, via the Lambert Enterprises "Keep-it-up" circuit.

However, i am equally convinced that my alternator does not charge my house batteries while running down the road.
So, i have done a bunch of reading of the BIRD circuits on this forum, and am sure that something like
Intellitec BIRD device the would address this.

However, since all this device appears to do is activate the isolator relay between the chassis and house batteries, i am concerned the factory isolator may not be rated for the continuous use it would get from such a device. After all the isolator was originally installed to boost the chassis batteries from the house batteries in case they ran dead so you could still get home. i.e. temporary and occasional use only.

Anyone with experience retrofitting this BIRD device onto a 2004-era Monaco coach, such as my Windsor have an opinion on this?

Many thanks,
Craig
2004 Windsor 40PDQ

[Robi.1014]

Opinion is that this "isolator" solenoid can indeed be energized continuously. Yes, the coil gets hot. If you're familiar with the definition of "duty cycle", it is designed with a duty cycle of 100%.

By experience, I know that a standard automotive starter solenoid (Ford, for example), will indeed fail if energized for long periods of time. It's designed for 30, maybe 90 seconds of cranking, but power it for 20 minutes....and it's toast. Please don't ask me how I know this.....

My '04 Dip has the needed circuits to activate the isolator solenoid automatically and thus charge/maintain the house batts while traveling down the road. You say your Windsor does not?

[jlyon69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock342 So, I have determined that my 2004 Windsor has a battery maintainer circuit for keeping the chassis battery charged while plugged in, via the Lambert Enterprises "Keep-it-up" circuit. However, i am equally convinced that my alternator does not charge my house batteries while running down the road. So, i have done a bunch of reading of the BIRD circuits on this forum, and am sure that something like Intellitec BIRD device the would address this. However, since all this device appears to do is activate the isolator relay between the chassis and house batteries, i am concerned the factory isolator may not be rated for the continuous use it would get from such a device. After all the isolator was originally installed to boost the chassis batteries from the house batteries in case they ran dead so you could still get home. i.e. temporary and occasional use only. Anyone with experience retrofitting this BIRD device onto a 2004-era Monaco coach, such as my Windsor have an opinion on this? Many thanks, Craig 2004 Windsor 40PDQ

I dont know what makes you convinced, but before you decide on throwing $$ at this, a simple test with a volt (multi) meter will tell you what you need to know. With your engine running, your chassis battery should show upwards of 14.5 volts. If your coach batteries are showing 14+ volts, then you are mistaken.

If they're showing 13 volts or less, you are correct. Now, I've personally never heard of any coach where the alternator didn't charge the coach batteries. So I would have to assume you have something wrong.

Non BIRD systems use one continuous duty solenoid to handle both boost starting (via manual switch) and coach battery charging when the engine is running.
y
So if your coach batts are not getting charged going down the road, I have to assume your solenoid is bad or somethin in the circuit is bad.

All that said, I do not know your your system. Im only talking in general and hope this may help a bit.

[mfire1339]

Rock,
Your coach has the necessary hardware to charge coach batteries. You have a problem that a test light or volt meter will find.




Mike

[BikerGirl]

our windsor charges the house batts while traveling. it does not charge as fast as the gen or shore power does, but if traveling all day, it should do fine. I can watch it on the alladin system as we drive. do you have one of these?

[Rock342]

Yes, I do have the Aladdin system. I normally leave it on the engine info page while driving. I'll make a note to watch the battery levels next time to see if I can see if it's charging the house while driving.

Do you find it charges fast enough to keep up with the inverter running the TV while driving?

Craig
2004 Windsor 40PDQ

[jlyon69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerGirl our windsor charges the house batts while traveling. it does not charge as fast as the gen or shore power does, but if traveling all day, it should do fine.

Can you tell me why this is so in your rig? The alternator puts out 14.5 volts when the engine is running. A normal converter puts out 13.6 when under generator or shore power. A "smart" converter will put out 13.2, 13.6 or 14.4 volts depending on the battery needs. So, unless there is some unusual limitation built into your rig, the batteries should charge faster when the engine is running than under shore or genny power.

[moleary]

My '07 Endeavor did not charge the house batteries from the alternator. I purchased a continuous duty solenoid at NAPA. I installed it in the battery bay. To power it I found a 12v source in the battery bay which was energized when the ignition switch was on. Anytime the engine is running, the solenoid is energized. Connecting the chassis batteries to the house batteries through the solenoid solved my problem. One of these days I am going to install a switch on the dash to manually control the solenoid. As it is now when the engine is running and the inverter/charger is being powered by the generator, I sometimes get an "alternator" warning light/alarm on the dash because it thinks the alternator is overcharging. Usually I can just turn on the headlights and the voltage drops enough to silence the alarm.

[jlyon69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moleary My '07 Endeavor did not charge the house batteries from the alternator.

That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard a MH manufacturer do. (and no, I'm not trying to start a new thread on dumb designs)

[Pusherpilot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robi.1014 Opinion is that this "isolator" solenoid can indeed be energized continuously. Yes, the coil gets hot. If you're familiar with the definition of "duty cycle", it is designed with a duty cycle of 100%. By experience, I know that a standard automotive starter solenoid (Ford, for example), will indeed fail if energized for long periods of time. It's designed for 30, maybe 90 seconds of cranking, but power it for 20 minutes....and it's toast. Please don't ask me how I know this..... My '04 Dip has the needed circuits to activate the isolator solenoid automatically and thus charge/maintain the house batts while traveling down the road. You say your Windsor does not?

Readng the intellitec BIRD docs leads me to beleive that the BIRD uses full voltage to pull the relay in then lowers it to a "hold in" value. I think it said around 4vdc. This allows a limited duty cycle relay to be used without overheating.
Ron

[Pusherpilot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerGirl our windsor charges the house batts while traveling. it does not charge as fast as the gen or shore power does, but if traveling all day, it should do fine. I can watch it on the alladin system as we drive. do you have one of these?

Our 04 Imperial does the same thing.
Ron

[Hikerdogs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock342 So, I have determined that my 2004 Windsor has a battery maintainer circuit for keeping the chassis battery charged while plugged in, via the Lambert Enterprises "Keep-it-up" circuit. However, i am equally convinced that my alternator does not charge my house batteries while running down the road. However, since all this device appears to do is activate the isolator relay between the chassis and house batteries, i am concerned the factory isolator may not be rated for the continuous use it would get from such a device. After all the isolator was originally installed to boost the chassis batteries from the house batteries in case they ran dead so you could still get home. i.e. temporary and occasional use only. Many thanks, Craig 2004 Windsor 40PDQ

The problem you describe is fairly typical of the way this solenoid/relay fails. Ours worked fine when it was manually activated to link the batteries. However it wouldn't allow the alternator to charge both the house and chassis batteries.

When the engine was started you could hear and feel the solenoid plunger move to complete the circuit but no current would pass.

I did some research and found Tekonsha (the people that make electric trailer brake controllers) also make this type of relay. I called the tech line and explained the problem I was having. The tech said it was definately a faulty relay.

Apparently after numerous activations and releases carbon deposits build upon the face of the plunger. Enen though the magnetic coil forces the plunger to the contact position the carbon deposits insulate the surfaces enough to keep current from passing from the alternator to the batteries.

I took his word and bought a new relay for about $18.00. It took all of 15 minutes to install and cured the problem. Now the alternator charges all the batteries while driving down the road

The Tekonsha relay definately has a 100% duty cycle. It gets warm when activated but never gets to hot to touch. If you buy a new one make sure it has the 100% duty cycle. They look almost identical to the old Ford starter solenoid. However the Ford solenoid only has about a 5% duty cycle. It will burn out in less than an hour of continuous duty.

[DennisZ]

Here's a document that explains how the BIRD in the newer series Monaco coaches work, as well as the replacement relay if yours is bad. I just had to replace my relay with a new one, the contacts quit working. Ordered it online, then realized the supplier was only about a 5 minute drive from my house.

Hope this helps explain it all.

Dennis

[JimM68]

Different coaches use different systems to do this. My previous fleetwood used a completely different system than my current 08 monaco, and over the years, monaco used many different systems, includong the infamous and optional "BIRD"

All thast I know of, other than the add-on trik l charger, use the "booost" relay to get it done.

My 08 knight has the latest version of this stuff, built into the fuse board in the front drivers side bay. I know it works because, when turniing off the battery disconnects, I can hear the relay drop out when I disconnect the second battery.

I still think the relay is weak, the few times I've let the house batteries run down, hitting the boost button did not produce enough power to start the genny, though the chassis batteries were easily capable of starting the cummins...

One time, I let the chassis batteries run down.... I could start the genny, but not the cummins, boost or no boost.

In the spring, I'm relplacing that relay.

It's hard to purposely troubleshoot "dead battery" problems.