Delamination Issues

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by RamiDav

Good Morning guys
You may have heard of Chris Throgmartin aka StoneVos who makes the best
replacement slide covers and awnings .
Chris attends most of the large rv rallies where he will do inspection of your
awnings and caulking .
Now I don't know Chris personally but I have bought his products and believe
he is an exceptional person and is always ready and willing to help and advise .
When I read his post this morning I felt it was so closely related to this thread
I wanted to share .
I hope its ok so here it is
Ray


Harry:

I believe I answered you by e-mail but will post this for other members here. I apologize for being so slow in responding. I have been on the road and then at the Maintenance Session.

This is an ongoing problem with all Monaco brand coaches – popping of the upper belt line. I just had PJ fix mine which popped over the entry door. Last year he fixed a popped belt line on my coach over the drivers window.

The cause is the caulking line on top of the belt line opens up. Water and moisture seeps in and rusts out the rivets ( or screws whichever the factory guy had in his pocket at the time ) and then the belt line pops out. This can be prevented by keeping track of the caulking. For those who have coaches that are over 8 years old then the entire upper and lower belt line should have all the old caulking removed and new caulking applied. Body caulking should be replaced every 8 years.

You should recaulk using ProFlex RV caulking. This is the same caulking that was used by Monaco when your coach was built. NEVER use silicone caulking on your coach.

I have found popped belt lines everywhere on Monaco coaches but the most prominent locations are near the curved radiuses of the belt lines at the front and rear near the cap seams. The belt lines can also pop anywhere though as you and others have found out. If I do 100 inspections at a rally I will always find at least 5 popped belt lines with the vast majority being over the drivers window. I did a small 50 coach rally in April and found 3.

Owners should be aware that there are two types of belt line pops. 1.) The beltline pops from the side wall and roof. 2.) The belt line pops and stays attached to the roof but the wall pops inward. I found a Dynasty last year that I stuck my hand up the side wall and right into the roof section but the belt line was still attached to the roof. You can see these from the ground as there will be a gap between the belt line and wall. The side wall pop will appear normal unless you stand right next to the wall and look up. Then you will see the gap.

You Will lose a wall to delam if you do not get the popped belt line fixed right away. If you find one while on a trip, simply apply gorilla ape over the opening until your home or can get into a service center to get it fixed. Because this problem is so prevalent with our coaches you should inspect your coach every 3 months for popped belt lines.

Hope this helps,

Chris T

I know Chris T personally. He is a stand up guy. We Monaco owners can be thankful that he has done what he has for us. He spends a tremendous amount of time at rallies doing "free" inspections to help us avoid major problems. You can count on what he says.

Chad

RamiDav, I wasnt trying to belittle anything you said. Just stating since you said you hadn't met him that he is no doubt a good guy.

[96 Wideglide]

I keep reading 'NO SILICONE', yet in my owners manual, is an illustration of the coach, with arrows pointing to all the seams they used silicone to seal .

[Mackmanr]

Rod,
I used to work for Monaco as a Production Manager for the Paint Department. Water intrusion can wreak havoc on motorhomes. The luan that is laminated to the back of the fiberglass side wall will dry rot and then loses adhesion causing the delam. I have repaired my fair share of delams both at Monaco and in my own shop. Speaking from experience, I will tell you that what we do in my shop is we will remove the rotted luan and replace it with aluminum sheet metal that is the same gauge as the luan. We relaminate the aluminum to the back of the fiberglass and then reattach the side wall to the metal frame work of the side wall using lamination glue. I highly recommend only using lamination glue for this process. I have seen other forms of adhesives and they all fail. The reason we use aluminum is because if there is ever another issue with water intrusion the side wall will be less effected in the same area because the aluminum won't rot like the wood does. I hope this information was helpful.

Respectfully,

Ricki Mackin

[RamiDav]

Ricki ,
Welcome to the board
Great post , I hope you stick around .

Could you elaborate as to what lamination glue is and approx
how thick is the luan and aluminum you mentioned .

Ray

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by Mackmanr

Rod,

I used to work for Monaco as a Production Manager for the Paint Department. Water intrusion can wreak havoc on motorhomes. The luan that is laminated to the back of the fiberglass side wall will dry rot and then loses adhesion causing the delam. I have repaired my fair share of delams both at Monaco and in my own shop. Speaking from experience, I will tell you that what we do in my shop is we will remove the rotted luan and replace it with aluminum sheet metal that is the same gauge as the luan. We relaminate the aluminum to the back of the fiberglass and then reattach the side wall to the metal frame work of the side wall using lamination glue. I highly recommend only using lamination glue for this process. I have seen other forms of adhesives and they all fail. The reason we use aluminum is because if there is ever another issue with water intrusion the side wall will be less effected in the same area because the aluminum won't rot like the wood does. I hope this information was helpful.



Respectfully,



Ricki Mackin

Ricki appreciate your experience an insight to this common problem if not handled early.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

I keep reading 'NO SILICONE', yet in my owners manual, is an illustration of the coach, with arrows pointing to all the seams they used silicone to seal .

My coach has silicone around the windows and above and below that "belt line" molding mentioned above. To paraphrase Chicken man -- it's everywhere, it's everywhere!

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by barmcd

My coach has silicone around the windows and above and below that "belt line" molding mentioned above. To paraphrase Chicken man -- it's everywhere, it's everywhere!

Lol, FYI shirt story. After getting my roof line repair at a body shop after Quartzite this year, they used silicone on the front drivers side roof/wall cap seam cover. Next trip to Nevada, I noticed a black rope looking think whipping around in my left mirror. Pulled over it was the silicone dangling from top seam. Not applied or cleaned correctly most likely, Proflex, Geocel. Better.

[rlbow43]

Originally Posted by RamiDav

Dennis & Rod

When I took the drivers window out it had this ribbed foam weather strip
all the way around and was caulked all the way around after the
window was installed.



What do you guys have for weatherstrip between the window frame and
the wall ?

Ray 03 Windsor

Ray,

I would guess that is what mine is. Looks like that. It is not easy to remove. How did you get yours off? I haven't worked at it much but was not coming off very easy. Was going to try this stuff I found that is supposed to work on silicone and other stuff - if it works on silicone I figure it should work on whatever they used to stick the weatherstrip on. I'll cut as much off as I can before I do that.

[rlbow43]

Originally Posted by barmcd

I'm using the butyl tape too and some type of sealant. I was going to go with Dicor, but they don't make a black non-sag sealant so I'm thinking about Sikaflex or even black windshield sealant.

Dennis,

My window was sealed with a black sealant, too. What I bought is Geocel Pro Flex clear. I did find it in black online. About $10.50 from the manuf. Don't know what shipping is.

[rlbow43]

Originally Posted by RamiDav

Good Morning guys
You may have heard of Chris Throgmartin aka StoneVos who makes the best
replacement slide covers and awnings .
Chris attends most of the large rv rallies where he will do inspection of your
awnings and caulking .
Now I don't know Chris personally but I have bought his products and believe
he is an exceptional person and is always ready and willing to help and advise .
When I read his post this morning I felt it was so closely related to this thread
I wanted to share .
I hope its ok so here it is
Ray

Ray,

Thanks for the post. When I found the loose seam I did go around the bottom seam [haven't looked at the top yet] looking for more of the same. Everything did seem tight, but now I'm thinking I need to recaulk it all anyway, in addition to all the windows and any other areas that are caulked. Oh well, just something else to do this year before our trip.

[rlbow43]

Originally Posted by tizzel

Rod Hi to answer your question about the mechanical connection of the cap to the inner steel framing they didn't use an adhesive ,epoxy or sealant on the fiberglass caps front or rear ,the only thing that is holding the caps to the sidewalls are the screws and rivets that go thru what is being called the beltline and of course the rivets under the tar tape or etherbond on the roof,caulk that overlap between the cap and sidewall with an adhesive of your choice before you install the screws or rivet for the aluminum channel base of the belt line cover ,also it's my opinion that trapped water causes most of the failures of the fasteners screws and rivets , water is being trapped under the BL cover do to caulking the top and bottom side of the cover which leaves no place for the water to escape and of course some is caused by mechanical movement between the cap and sidewall or roof .

I had pretty much decided that the cap wasn't supposed to be glued/sealed around the window and down the seam. I was hoping someone would confirm that. Thanks

[rlbow43]

Originally Posted by Mackmanr

Rod,
I used to work for Monaco as a Production Manager for the Paint Department. Water intrusion can wreak havoc on motorhomes. The luan that is laminated to the back of the fiberglass side wall will dry rot and then loses adhesion causing the delam. I have repaired my fair share of delams both at Monaco and in my own shop. Speaking from experience, I will tell you that what we do in my shop is we will remove the rotted luan and replace it with aluminum sheet metal that is the same gauge as the luan. We relaminate the aluminum to the back of the fiberglass and then reattach the side wall to the metal frame work of the side wall using lamination glue. I highly recommend only using lamination glue for this process. I have seen other forms of adhesives and they all fail. The reason we use aluminum is because if there is ever another issue with water intrusion the side wall will be less effected in the same area because the aluminum won't rot like the wood does. I hope this information was helpful.

Respectfully,

Ricki Mackin

Ricki,

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try the fix myself. Will see how that goes. If badly, might get in touch with you later. Right now I'm waiting for the next 3-4 days of non-rain, temp 65+ to do the fix. As you know, this has
not been a spring to do things like that outside.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by rlbow43

I had pretty much decided that the cap wasn't supposed to be glued/sealed around the window and down the seam. I was hoping someone would confirm that. Thanks

Rod, when I had the window out, I could see the a small section above and below the window where the front cap overlapped the side wall and there wasn't any adhesive visible. It certainly is a poor design, not so much the way the front cap is attached to the side wall, but the location of the seam at the driver's side window. It would have been great if they had attached a small metal gutter to carry the water past the front of the window.