Dry-camping....and small generators

[Robi.1014]

A recent “wintering” in Florida introduced me to 2 to 4 weeks of dry-camping (my first experience at periods of this length). Longer term dry-campers introduced me to the value of running a small, gas-powered generator (does the 1KW Honda come to mind?) rather than using our thirsty on board Onan diesels. Most of these guys (all, perhaps) used the 120VAC output of their “Honda” connected into their rig’s shore-power cord so they got some AC into the coach (TV watching typically) as well as charging their house batteries (albeit at low charge rates) via their inverter.

I thought I’d ask our forum for their thoughts about using such a small generator’s DC output (if it has this feature) to directly charge the house batteries…and let the inverter provide AC power when such power is demanded. Advantages/Disadvantages?

Does anyone know of a small generator that ONLY produces a DC output? I would think that a single-winding, DC-only generator could be designed to put out more DC amps than a generator that has windings for both AC and DC outputs.

[MotionGrantd]

At least 75% of my camping involves dry camping. I carry a 2400 watt Yamaha in our enclosed trailer, but I only use it for long periods of dry camping. For one or two day trips, we use the Onan and inverter mostly.

I don't see any benefit to using the DC output on these small generators, plus I don't think the DC output can adequately charge 4 house batteries. At most, I think it's designed to charge small motorcycle batteries or perhaps one large battery.

I've had great luck hooking the Yamaha up to the shore power plug, but I turn the max charge rate way down. I set it to a max charge/draw of 10 amps, which allows the converter to charge the batteries without over taxing the small generator, and it provides full 110v power inside the coach without having to use the inverter.

[Socal36]

Majority of our camping is dry. The Honda 1k worked well for our class C but just wouldn't keep up with our needs when we got the Monaco. I ran across a Kipor IG3000 for 750 bucks. Its a total knock off of a Honda 3k and is very quite. We have had it for 3 years now with no issues .


I would suggest getting a 2 or 3k generator, just make sure what ever brand it's quite or it will drive you nutz!

[JeepTJ5]

At the risk of starting trouble, I will put in my $0.02. This is my second winter dry camping in Arizona. Last year I used my on-board diesel generator, and with only minor conservation I was able to get by with only running the generator twice a day for a total of about 4 to 5 hours. (Generally)

This year, for less than the price of a 2kW Honda, I got a solar system, and my generator hasn't been on since, except for the vacuum and microwave. (Both will run off the inverter, but I don't like to discharge the batteries so much - a personal preference) 360 watts of solar panels(2), controller, wiring, brackets, etc., for about $1100. And no noise. I installed it myself with the good advice from Handy Bob, and it works as advertised. (I am totally amazed at how good it works)

Back to your regularly scheduled forum....

Don

[nodine]

The down side to using a small gas portable generator is that in addition to having more to store and carry, you now have to deal with a third fuel. If you already transport motorcycles, etc. then not a big deal, but we don't. I actually own a 2k Honda we use when dry camping with our Scamp. In that case we are still only handling two fuels, gasoline and propane. If I carry that generator in the Diplomat then I must deal with diesel, propane, and gasoline.

Just my two cents,

Bob

[crazyfox]

Our camping is 90% dry and the solution we found is solar panels and a good charge controller,if you have to buy a controller make sure its oversized so one can add more panels as they come on sale.The only heavy draw we found comes from the heater furnace,I have changed as many of the interior lights to leds with lots of light and very low consumption,to bad i can not find a low draw TV set.

[ischua]

this is from another post on building a small 63 amp 12v only power supply suitable for charging batteries or power using a car alternator and a lawnmower motor
you can get parts here Emergency Power Sources and Batteries!

[Uncle Dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodine The down side to using a small gas portable generator is that in addition to having more to store and carry, you now have to deal with a third fuel. If you already transport motorcycles, etc. then not a big deal, but we don't. I actually own a 2k Honda we use when dry camping with our Scamp. In that case we are still only handling two fuels, gasoline and propane. If I carry that generator in the Diplomat then I must deal with diesel, propane, and gasoline. Just my two cents, Bob

I get the three fuel problem.

You can have a honda 2K converted to propane if you dont wish to deal with a third fuel. The you can run it basically forever off an extend a stay tap.

Or you can bring an extended run tank with 6 gallons in it - this with the 1 gallon in the honda will give you around 84 hours of light load run time.


I dry camp 80-90% of the time and find that for battery charging its better to use one of the hondas outlets to a power a battery charger than use the 8 amp battery charger built in.

This gives me the ability to select a decent range of maximum draw on the honda 2K, say a 25 amp charge, and I can run the RV off the inverter exclusively with the charger replenishing as needed- this also slows the ramping of generator substantially as there is a delay in how the charger steps the load vs a direct hood up to AC on a tiny generator.

(anyone with a honda 2K starting a toaster knows what I mean)

- and at the same time use the other 110V outlet to power the toy hauler which only has a converter for the guests to keep them powered up and charging phone laptops & misc computing, lights, furnace, fans, water pumps - etc.

Using multiple 1, or 2 K gennies in parallel or even triple is a great way to scale power consumption & maintenance and add redundancy to your power strategy.



Uncle Dave

[Coma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepTJ5 At the risk of starting trouble, I will put in my $0.02. This is my second winter dry camping in Arizona. Last year I used my on-board diesel generator, and with only minor conservation I was able to get by with only running the generator twice a day for a total of about 4 to 5 hours. (Generally) This year, for less than the price of a 2kW Honda, I got a solar system, and my generator hasn't been on since, except for the vacuum and microwave. (Both will run off the inverter, but I don't like to discharge the batteries so much - a personal preference) 360 watts of solar panels(2), controller, wiring, brackets, etc., for about $1100. And no noise. I installed it myself with the good advice from Handy Bob, and it works as advertised. (I am totally amazed at how good it works) Back to your regularly scheduled forum.... Don

I agree. To each his own, of course. I have a single panel, so we'll have to see how well that works. A properly cared for diesel Onan will last tens of thousands of hours and at half load will burn .49 gals/hour. At charge loads is
.13 gals/hour. .13x16=2.08 ounces/hr. 3.50 diesel=$0.56 per hour to operate.

[Uncle Dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coma I agree. To each his own, of course. I have a single panel, so we'll have to see how well that works. A properly cared for diesel Onan will last tens of thousands of hours and at half load will burn .49 gals/hour. At charge loads is .13 gals/hour. .13x16=2.08 ounces/hr. 3.50 diesel=$0.56 per hour to operate.

Pretty much agree with this

The Rv QD 6000 variable speed diesel is the only one I know that meets the low end fuel spec you quoted of .13 and to be fair thats listed at no load or just enough to throw a few amps into a battery bank.

Yes- this latest type are some of the finest RV gennies available today and will probably run in the tens of thousands of hours with proper care its an awesome genny and at 7.5-8K plus install it should be.

Im saving for one of these myself.



Uncle Dave

[Engineer Guy]

I'm a hard core Tech type, and there's good advice in about every Post above.

Inverting back from Batteries represents unavoidable power loss during the conversion. So, it's nice to avoid when possible.

The small Gennie idea is my favorite because they're light, versatile, quiet, and efficient. Sized correctly, you'll be using about 'all' the power generated. The typical 8.3 Amp DC Output is not enough to charge 'well-used' Batteries overnight. If you're a 'Sparky' type, it would be mighty simple to have a Switch or Relay let that Gennie DC Output run +12 VDC Lights or 'stuff' in the Coach directly [the 3-way Fridge?]. Waste not, want not. I don't mind packing several fuels, and have a neato Hand Siphon to access TV Gas in an 'emergency'.

That sort of 8.3 Amp DC current is good either for topping up 1 or 2 Batteries, or charging over longer time periods than overnight. Instead, let a ~30 Amp 3 or 4 Stage Charger run off the Gennie's 120 VAC Output do the job, since it won't draw so much 120 VAC that you cannot also run the Coach essentials in comfort. Sophisticated Chargers/Tenders will lengthen Battery life vs. a 'simple' Gennie DC Output. Read why below. Also, you might want to 'save' the finite discharge cycles of your Batteries for more important tasks.

Here's the favorite ~$160- P.S. of several of us intend to buy after much research, and reading Posts on line, IF you're looking for a new one, and if it's stout enough for you:

Progressive Dynamics Inverter Charger

Otherwise, consider adding on a 'Battery Tender'.

I got a free, never-used Kipor 3k Gennie shown above 'thrown in' as part of a great deal on a lightly-used 15' Play Mor TT, so I'll be using that occasionally. We're into 'quiet' Boondocking. Had I not scored this Gennie, I was all set to go the direction of 'JeepTJ5' above [and I may still].

My thinking now is to get maximum current while towing back to 2 - +6 VDC Golf Cart Batteries [likely Dekas obtained locally]. I'll employ 'Handy Bob's' up-sized wiring tips. We should go 'quite a while' before needing the Gennie for a recharge. Moving around occasionally will let the TV provide charging. Batteries are the ample-sized energy 'flywheel' storage.

Lawnmower Generator Project

[bluepill]

One point for consideration that I don't think has been directly addressed. This applies if you have a fairly large "House Battery Bank" (three or more batteries, 250 amp. hours or more) and a 3 or 4 stage charger (75 or more amps. maximum charging current).

The first stage of charging ("Bulk Mode") is where the charger draws maximum current - possibly 1500 to 2000 watts of 120 volt input. The second stage (Absorption) requires quite a bit less current. If you are willing to monitor the charging process, you can run the big genny for the first stage where it's economical, then switch to a small genny or solar for the second and third stages.

This does require more attention on your part, but may give you a better overall combination.

[wa8yxm]

For my rig a 1KW Honda Inverter generator is not big enough, but a 1KW Genrac tradational is... (So you understand the limits of Honda Inverter units)

However if I switched to a 2KW... Well,, I kind of wish I'd bought one when I had money

I also wish that Genrac I just mentioned would return to pappa but alas it grew legs and walked off on me.. I think I know who the thief is but proving it requires I find the blanged thing and I've yet to find the proper pawn shop.

[Gary - K7GLD]

LOTS of good info above - we've been doing this RV/dry camp bit for many years - early on, we used a 1KW Honda for microwave, toaster and such, supplemented by a 2 amp solar panel for recharging batteries, suited our personal needs quite well, had a 300 watt inverter to run a TV/DVD setup for evenings and bad weather times.

Problem with many RV setups is the fact that the built in power converters have a very low/slow battery charging rate, so the generators have to be run for long periods if they are the primary source of battery recharging. We later bought a 5.5 amp solar panel to supplement the 2 amp we already had - and got a 2KW Honda to replace the older 1KW model - both Honda's also supply about 8 amps of 12 volt battery recharging output as well as their 120 VAC output.

All that fits our dry camping needs well, but to take things up one more notch, I have ordered, but not yet installed, one of the latest technology 45 amp "Switching" type power converters to replace the older transformer type MagneTek 45 amp unit our MH came with - this provides far smoother and spike-free power, faster and safer battery recharging with it's 3-step charging circuit - and much safer for sensitive electronics stuff like my Ham Radio, computer and flat screen TV:

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/thu...axx=300&maxy=0

Our MH has it's own 4KW ONAN generator for the higher occasional power needs of the A/C, but as we all know, the higher fuel consumption and noise and vibration it creates makes the choice of only using it on a limited basis is now possible - besides, the lighter Honda 2KW besides being light and low on fuel consumption, can easily be operated on a cord long enough to get it away from the MH to reduce noise, etc.

Yeah, we still need to dump tanks and refill water - but our power needs are well under control for extended boondocking...