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Old 07-10-2019, 01:09 PM   #1
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Electrical Imbalance

I have both a Progressive Industries EMS AND a hughes autoformer. I obviously don't use them both at the same time. But, here's my problem. At this particular campground, Bay Landing, Bridgeport Texas, the voltage that I am getting from the post is different on each leg. 50 AMP service, that is. It varies throughout the day, but is consistently low on Leg 2, which feeds two of the three A/C units.

So, if I use the PI Unit, I get low voltage on Leg 2 often enough that the rig EMS shuts down to protect the system.

If I use the Hughes Autoformer, then Leg 1 is too high, enough that again the rig system ems shuts down to protect as well.

Anyone have any ideas as to what I can do? I have measured the voltage at the post, and it seems to be consistent with what the PI unit displays on it's LED reporting system.
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Old 07-10-2019, 01:19 PM   #2
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What voltage are you reading one each leg? Is the facility you are at loaded down with campers?
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:26 PM   #3
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Electrical Imbalance

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Originally Posted by Jreeves2 View Post
What voltage are you reading one each leg? Is the facility you are at loaded down with campers?
Leg 2 is 112 volts unloaded, while Leg 1 is 119 volts unloaded.

If I add the Autoformer, it brings Leg 1 up to about 127 volts unloaded. And, Leg 2 up to about 120 volts unloaded.

When Leg 2 gets a load, at some point, Leg 1 goes over 132 volts and shuts down the Rig EMS protection circuits. Vice versa, if I use the Progressive industries, When Leg 2 gets a load, sooner or later, Leg2 falls to 105 and shuts down, while Leg 1 stays nicely around 120.

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Old 07-10-2019, 02:29 PM   #4
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Sounds like a loose ground on the utility
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:37 PM   #5
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The only short term fix may be to relocate to another spot that has better power.

Campground low voltage is a pain. We were staying at a campground with low voltage. When one leg dropped too low it would kick off the power completely. Sometimes it would trip the A/C circuit breaker. I also noticed the circuit breaker panel would get hot. I used the hot circuit breaker panel as ammunition to file a complaint.

I complained and backed it up with voltage measurements at different times of the day. They had the power company come out and check and they verified it was low. The problem was a long power cable run (200 yards) from the main system transformer to the camp distribution center. The power company ended up relocating the transformer on a new pole next to the distribution center and all is well. This took some time but sure was worth it in the end.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theBeav View Post

When Leg 2 gets a load, at some point, Leg 1 goes over 132 volts and shuts down the Rig EMS protection circuits.
I'm surprised your Hughes would boost one leg that high.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:56 PM   #7
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I'm surprised your Hughes would boost one leg that high.
Yeah. I was too. I think that it doesn't distinguish between legs when it boosts the voltage. It would be nice if they were independent legs. 10% boost when one leg is already 120, puts it right up to 132. :-(
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
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If I use the Hughes Autoformer, then Leg 1 is too high, enough that again the rig system ems shuts down to protect as well.
According to the Hughs web site, each of the two lines are independently boosted (or not), depending on input voltage, and the higher voltage line should not be in boost mode unless it's falling below the threshold. Is yours different from the current offering?

https://hughesautoformers.com/produc...ter-and-surge/

From the manual in the link:

5. Your Autoformer is now monitoring the park voltage. If voltage drops below 113 volts the Autoformer will boost to 123 volts and the line boosting light will appear. The 50 amp circuit has two 120 volt lines. Only one line may need a boost. The Autoformer will continuously boost 10%. Once the park voltage rises to 115 volts or above, the boost mode will turn off.

The photo also shows "Line 1 Boosting When Lit" and "Line 2 Boosting When Lit"
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Old 07-10-2019, 03:19 PM   #9
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According to the Hughs web site, each of the two lines are independently boosted (or not), depending on input voltage, and the higher voltage line should not be in boost mode unless it's falling below the threshold. Is yours different from the current offering?
That's right! Now you mention it, I've seen mine with just one side lit!
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:15 AM   #10
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In our area (southern Idaho), the utility company's standard is to provide service at 120 volts, plus or minus 5%. So that means that if they deliver at less than 114 or more than 126 volts, there is a problem for the utility to correct. That requirement applies at the point of service to the customer. From there, on to the load, it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure adequate voltage.

The Silverleaf begins to catch my eye when either leg drops below 110 volts or goes above 130 volts. We have been in some older parks where, at times, the voltage has dropped well below 110, but I don't think I have ever seen it below 100 volts. High voltage has not been something we've seen very often.

Low voltage is a particularly bad things for motor loads, but is not really a problem for resistive loads. High voltage can be a problem for electronics, in particular, but almost any kind of load, depending on its design.

Like Vito, we've had hot breaker panel issues, a number of times. Again, on resistive loads like heaters, lights, etc., low voltage isn't so much of a problem. The current in the load goes down in proportion to the voltage. But motor loads, like air conditioners, heat pumps and fans see higher currents when the voltage goes low. That does cause additional heating the breaker panels. Add to that the fact that the back wall of our breaker panel is just a few millimeters from the outside wall of the coach that may be getting direct sunlight, helping to provide heat to the enclosure. On a few really hot days, we've had to open the cupboard a few times, and put set up a fan to blow air on the panel to keep the A/C breakers from tripping.

Regarding the voltages that theBeav is experiencing, I would not be concerned about any of those, from 112 to 127 volts. I don't have experience with the autoformer, but know that it can be a very good investment, particularly when you expect to frequent a lot of older parks. Until your post, I had not heard of a Progressive EMS, so can't comment on that. If your coach has protection against overly high or overly low voltage, I would personally just rely on that. And if I were in a situation where I had really low voltage, and access to an autoformer, I would certainly use it.
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:34 AM   #11
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With that much difference between the two legs, you have an issue with a weak neutral on the parks wiring. Or it could be that one leg has too many 30 amp rigs drawing current and has the voltage down on it. Move to another site and see if it is better,

And I do run my Hughes at the pedestal in front of my Progressive Ind hard-wired EMS. There is no issue with it.
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