electrical problems

[MACRacing]

Sorry this is a little long but i thought the more details the better. I have just purchased a 2002 Monaco diplomat. I picked it up last weekend and have driven it home from Tennessee to Illinois. It drove well and all of the coach functions worked appropriately. I ran the generator to power the roof air heat pumps and things worked just fine. Now that I have the coach home I am having electrical problems that are stumping me. After I came home I plugged the coach into my standard 120V garage outlet. The inverter charged the batteries and things appeared OK. The rear TV and all of the outlets worked. The Micro powered up and the outlets in the kitchen also worked. The first thing that I discovered that didn't work was the front TV. It did not power up. I could tell the TV had been removed and was not solidly mounted in the cabinet. I have removed it and plugged it into a kitchen outlet and the TV does work. I tried the other outlets in the front of the coach and none work. I went to the fuse panel in the bedroom to see if possibly it was a tripped breaker. They were all in the on position. I flipped all of the breakers on and off to cycle them. When I flipped the main 50 amp breaker I could hear a circuit noise inside the box come on. Now however none of the 120 V systems are working. The shore power is still plugged in and hot. The inverter panel does not show power in or charge the batteries. If I turn the generator on it runs but again no 120 V power. The coach panel shows genset is on but none of the 120V systems work. Currently all of he 12V systems I still are working correctly, the lights, water pump, dash, radio all work correctly. Also if I turn on the inverter the 120V comes on and the rear TV Micro and outlets function. Except the front outlets, they still never have functioned.

So I have two problems. The first is the front outlets not functioning and the second is now the coach does not function with shore power or the genset.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank You
Mat

[mrschwarz]

I am not familiar with your setup but have you checked the breaker panel for 120v? If there is none, start at the transfer switch and work your way up the system. Find out where the voltage stops. There may be a tripped breaker in the inverter.

Good luck.

[Dr4Film]

Hi Mat,

Well, there are numerous things that could be causing your problem and also, by coincidence you could be experiencing multiple problems all at once.

I would troubleshoot each one separately making sure you understand what is causing each problem.

I would recommend first making sure your transfer switch is working correctly. This is a very large relay switch which transfers 120V power to your coach, inverter, converter, or from your generator. If it has failed or stuck, it won't be doing anything. It is generally located somewhere close to where the shore power comes into the coach.

You may also have an EMS system, which manages what 120V components in the coach you can use based on how many amps you have available. As the amps are reduced, the components are then shed from the system in a specific priority.

But first things first, make sure the transfer switch is working properly.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.

[Rex]

Mat, you said:

"After I came home I plugged the coach into my standard 120V garage outlet."

That may be part of the problem. A standard garage 120 vac outlet generally is a 15 amp circuit and will not provide sufficient power to run everything on your coach. It will supply enough power to the inverter to keep the batteries charged and power a few other things in the coach.

Power to most of the outlets comes through the inverter. The air conditioners are not powered by the inverter. As you still now have a loss of power in the coach even with the generator running, make sure the transfer switch is passing power. It should be in the compartment with the power cord. In that compartment you may also have an aftermarket surge protector that could be installed either before the transfer switch (power cord to surge to transfer) or between the transfer switch and the inside 120 vac circuit breaker panel.

As others have said, make sure you have power coming into the inside 120 vac power panel. If you do, look next to the inverter and make sure it is powered up. Disconnect the shore power and turn off the main battery disconnect switches. Remove the inside 120 vac power panel cover and tighten all the screws where wiring is connected. Reconnect the shore power and test the panel for power.

The inverter will have one or more input circuit and two output circuits depending on your inverter. The 01 Diplomat had a 1500 watt inverter with only one input and two outputs.

Let us know what you find.

[JFC]

On our 2007 coach, we've lost 120v to the front of the coach twice, that includes the front TV and the front outlets. Both times it was because a GFI had tripped. Our was a GFI near the hall bathroom sink. In both cases, the ice maker had problems that caused the 120v GFI to trip. Unplugged the ice maker, reset the GFI and things were fine. You might try looking for and resetting all the GFIs you can find. You never know what's connected down stream from them.

[Mandys Man]

There are also breakers on the inverter itself. Usually one to protect the inverter and two for circuits in the MH. They are button type breakers that pop out and need to be pushed back in to reset.
Also, If you have the electrical management system, (shows what the incoming power is) you need to set that to either 15 or 20 amp depending upon the circuit that is feeding the coach. For 30 and 50, it sets itself.
As Rex suggested, disconnect all shore power, turn off the battery switches, and reset everything.

[wa8yxm]

Breakers are located on the power source (Generator if running generator or the master power box in your house) also the master breaker box in the motor home.

I have had transfer switches fail.. I have had power cords fail, and I've seen failed power cords.


Inverters often have breakers as well... Mine does it electronically

[Chief]

Make sure your ignition switch is in the "off" position. Some mfg lock out the front tv plug when the ignition is in the on position.

[MACRacing]

Thank You all for the replies. I am making progress.

First since this is the first time since I had the coach home to work on it in the daylight I wanted to check the batteries first. The coach appears to not have been maintained perfectly. The chassis batteries were a little low on water, the coach / house batteries were low to the top of the plates. I filled all with distilled water and hopefully the coach batteries are not bad.

Now to the problem, I started at the transfer switch, 120 on both legs in the box from shore power and with the generator running. Also 120 out on both legs with either shore or generator running. So thats good, now to the breaker box in the bedroom. 120 at both legs into the main 50 amp breaker. The line 1 side of the panel had 120 V out all of the breakers. The Line 2 side did not. The line 2 side has the inverter on it. So I removed that breaker, cleaned the contacts, reinserted it and tightened all the connections. Now it is working with 120 to both sides if the panel. The inverter started right up charging the batteries and all of the outlets and rear TV started to work. The only strange part to me is the front air and other things had 120 at the breaker box but still didn't work. I am assuming since the inverter was on the dead side the EMS was not distributing current? Either way that part is now working. Also I will change the main 50 amp breaker next just to be on the safe side.

Now I am back to where I started, everything except the front outlets are working. I can only find 1 GFI in the coach and its at the vanity / sink in the back bedroom. It is not tripped and the other outlets forward of this work.
I did test each of the outlets, The one behind the TV, the duplex outlet in the cabinet next to the TV to the right and the duplex outlet in the cabinet above the driver do not work. The duplex outlet in the cabinet next to the TV on the left does work however. When I look at the outlets, the one behind the TV is a single outlet and the box has a lot of romex wires coming out of the back. I am assuming this is the junction for the entire area. I have not opened that box yet because I had to come to chicago for my daughters dance.

I will start there when I get back tomorrow but have a few questions still. There appears to be a 12V connection to this box also. Is this the safety switch for the ignition. Does this cut off only the TV outlet or all the front outlets? If this is the problem can I just bypass this part of the switch? If I remove it will it cause any fault codes etc?

Again thanks for all the replies.
Mat

[Mandys Man]

Quote:

There appears to be a 12V connection to this box also. Is this the safety switch for the ignition. If I remove it will it cause any fault codes etc?

This is the ignition cut out for the tv. No, it will not cause any fault codes.
It still sounds like, judging from which outlets are dead, that one of the breakers on the inverter is popped.

[Rex]

You will have more than one GFI. Look under the dinning table for one. There may also be one in the basement compartment where you have an electrical 120 vac outlet.

Do you have power at the receptacle under the dash on the passenger side?

[Dr4Film]

Regarding GFI's, your coach will have more than one. Bathroom, kitchen, exterior outlets SHOULD all be protected with a GFI. And one will not handle the possible ampere load of these three locations alone. The front TV has its own special outlet. It is connected to a relay so when the ignition is turned on it cuts power to the receptacle, safety regulations. Maybe someone has done some post wiring changes and have tapped into that circuit for the other outlets in the front or possible they have been wired incorrectly from the factory. Something that needs to be checked.

The 120V AC going to the front are almost always fed by the same main feed. The TV is the only one which has a special "box" so if that has power to it, chances are that the others should work too, unless there are some bad connections in the box or other boxes. These connections are the push on type, pretty cheap in design and are subject to failure. You may want to replace them with home style boxes and duplexes.

Dr4Film ----- Richard.

[HD4Mark]

If you are comfortable with a volt-ohm meter here is what I would do. Set the VOM to AC volts in whatever range 110 falls in. Test from the ground to both posts for voltage. If there is none I would next go from ground to a good known ground like something metal on OHMs to test the ground. No reading and the ground is open. Now if the ground is good you can check the neutral by going from it to the neutral. Lastly if I wasn't seeing voltage or ground using an outside the outlet ground source I would assume the wiring is disconnected somewhere. Start taking outlets and electrical boxes apart with the power off.

If you have never done this kind of work be very careful or get help with it and keep fingers away from the metal part of the probe.

EDIT: I'm not sure what you will be seeing ig the shore power is not connected so you have a ground source to the coach. No 2 prong adapters either!

[tomgagne]

I have a 2002 diplomat PBDD and just verified that the gfci outlet in the bathroom feeds the front 120vac circuit. The front tv and the receptable which is located near the floor mounted on the center console. In addition the receptacle in the basement compartment used for an outside tv, or a mobile man cave fridge if you like cold beer, is on the same circuit. So the 120v electrical feed for this circuit is from the transfer switch to the breaker panel to the inverter to the bathroom gfci to the receptacles. Too much on one circuit, yes, I frequently need to tap into the "other circuit" feeding the microwave. You may need to check the output side of the gfci