Electrical question

[Max Hubrich]

A friend (Joe) has an '02 38" HR DP. He sez all his 120 volt outlets in the house are on the inverter, even when hooked to shore power, and he's having a tough time running things ie, microwave, TV, small Pelonis, etc. I say "something is wrong". He was hit by lighting several years ago and a new inverter was installed. He also sez the power situtation was the same before his lighting strike.

Any ideas?

[ernieh]

I'm not really up to date on how HR engineers did things, but on my coach most of the outlets "switch" to the inverter when no other AC is available. If plugged in or generator is on, the inverter goes into "standby" mode.

What happens if his inverter is turned off with AC connected?

[RJay]

When plugged into shore power the inverter goes into bypass and passes shore power straight thru to those AC circuits normally fed by the inverter. If the pelonis and microwave is on the same circuit it's just too much load. We also have a pelonis and when we run it together with the microwave and depending what else is running, it will trip the breaker.

[Max Hubrich]

If the inverter is turned off and the AC shore power is connected, all the circuits are cold.

[tquarles]

First, check the breaker panel and make sure the 30 amp breaker for the inverter is turned on. If it is, than there is either a problem with the wiring of the inverter or the inverter itself. There is a 30 amp line from the panel to the inverter which powers the charger stage as well as being fed through the 2 15 amp breakers to feed the circuits which power (1) the microwave and (2) MOST of the outlets in the coach.
In normal operation, there are a pair of relays in the inverter which, when ac is applied, switch to supply the output breakers directly from that input AC, and if not, to connect the output of the inverter to those breakers instead. Since your friend has power when running on the inverter, it implies that the circuit from those breakers to the outlets is fine, so the problem is upstream from them. If it is the relays in the inverter, it'll have to be sent to a Xantrex authorized repair center - they don't sell parts. About $400 for a rebuild if just that relay board is bad. If it is the feed to the inverter, then the batteries won't charge from the inverter either.

(Just had the relay board replaced on my 2002 HR Endeavor about 4 months ago, and it took 2 replacements before they returned it to me in working condition).

[Jimmyzw22]

That is correct if my inverter breakers are off and i am plugged into shore power the receptacles are dead. Ran me around and around for a while until I figured it out. The Inverter breakers must be on to have power to the outlets, shore power or not. I have a 02 HR Endeavor 40pbt.

[nodine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyzw22 That is correct if my inverter breakers are off and i am plugged into shore power the receptacles are dead. Ran me around and around for a while until I figured it out. The Inverter breakers must be on to have power to the outlets, shore power or not. I have a 02 HR Endeavor 40pbt.

Almost all of the AC outlets in the coach are routed through two 20 amp breakers in the inverter. This is true even if the inverter is turned off. Usually one of the 20 amp breakers is dedicated to the microwave and the other has several outlets on it. More than once I have had to go outside and reset the 20 amp breaker on the inverter because I had an ac heater running and then turned on a hair dryer. It does not take much to overload a 20 amp circuit when you start plugging in heaters, etc.

Bob

[RickO]

What is a "Pelonis"?

Rick

[Luv2go]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickO What is a "Pelonis"? Rick

Ceramic disc heater,
here's a link to one.

[Max Hubrich]

We Got It! I think- .

The two 20 amp circuit breakers on the inverter must be ON all the time since shore power, and or generator power, has to go through this inverter to power the 120v house circuits. It's obvious then the combination of units being run exceeded the capacity of one of the 20 amp breakers.

The inverter cicruit breakers are an integral part of the house circuitry- I think.

The Xantrex Combi Inverter/charger, Model 81-1521-12 maintains a "head charge" on the 4 6v house batteries, in two "12v series banks". Is this inverter a 1500 watt modified sine wave inverter?

Joe says the chassis batteries are not being automatically charged. He has to run the engine every month to charge them. His owners manual says they are being charged via the inverter/charger combo. We'll check that out soon.
We can install a "TRIK-L-START" circuit if that is the case.

I'm not sure why both of my gas rigs have had a converter vs installing an inverter/charger combo from the factory and forget about the converter? Maybe because the Diesels have 4 house batteries.

Thanks for your input guys,

[tquarles]

You've never said what model HR your friend has. My understanding is that in 2002, NONE of the gas models and none of the diesels from the Endeavor down had the circuitry to charge the chassis batteries from shore power. That circuit was only installed in the high end diesels, and I don't remember where the cutover point was, but it was above the Endeavor.

As for the why, it is the other way around - his has 4 house batteries because it has an inverter. The inverter consumes an immense amount of battery current when it is inverting, so smaller battery banks won't last.
(Example: when your friend is running his microwave on the inverter, approximately a 10 amp load, it is drawing about 110 amps out of the batteries)

In some coaches, the manufacturer puts in an inverter so there is 110 power when not plugged into shore power or running the generator, on others they don't, so they just put in a converter to supply 12v dc and keep the batteries charged. The latter is much less expensive. (that Xantrex, the freedom 458 1500 watt modified sine wave inverter, is approximately a $2000 part, add the heavy battery cables, extra ac wiring, extra batteries, extra weight, extra space, etc)

The inverters, on the other hand, typically have a much better charging system - most are 3 stage chargers, while most converters are simply fixed voltage output, thus providing for longer intervals between replacing the batteries with the inverter.

[Max Hubrich]

tquarles,

Thanks for your input. He has an Endeavor.

The manual that came with his rig, Joe is the original owner, said it has a charging circuit for the chassis batteries- I read it .

I went over there this morning and checked the batteries. The 4 house batteries are at 14.3 v. The 2 chassis batteries are at 12.0 v.

I will install a TRIK-L-START system, shortly. We'll fix her up-

[LewF]

Max H, isn't 14.3 volts a little high for the house battery bank - I assume 4 six volt batteries wired in series parallel? I currently believe full charge is 13.8 volts which is what my inverter/charger system maintains when on float. I also note that the charge system setup allows two different levels of charge cutoff and I think I have mine set at the highest level. I am still trying to master the electrical systems on this our third coach so I am still learning. On our current coach we have a solar panel to also add into the mix so one more thing to figure out how it works in cooperation with the AC, the inverter and DC from the solar panel. Oh well one day I will figure it out - I think? Thanks for the help.

Lew

[Max Hubrich]

Lew,

I think the 14.3 v is right near the high limit. I went out and checked my batteries in my Newmar M A (gas) and I have 13.6 v on both the chassis (1 battery) and the house (2 batteries). Newmar has a built in charging circuit off the converter for all the batteries. On my Newmar the solar panel (5 watts) supplies power, only to the one chassis battery.

My voltage (alternator) while driving down the highway, via the Scan Gauge II, runs between 14.1 to 14.8 v in my rig.