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Old 12-01-2014, 05:38 PM   #1
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Engine Opinions wanted for the 03-05 Era

Hello
We have been looking to replace our recently sold CC Intrigue with a coach with a little more room and power for our Colorado mountains. We have been looking at coaches in the 04&05 range because of cost and many of these coaches have power plants that are pre-EGR and for sure Pre DPF exhaust systems.

One coach I have located is an Executive with a pre-EGR Red Head ISM.

One of the other coaches is an 04 Signature with a Detroit Series 60. I think this would be a 14L with a EGR system but also know that they are easily defeat able.

Does anybody have direct experiences with either on performance and economy (two dissimilar words but I do think it is possible)

I have been researching MH and Truck experiences and my head is starting to hurt from the back and forth great/terrible experiences.

We like the floor plans of both and cost is certainly better with the Exec but so are the amenities of the Sig. We are not full timers and the drive is my biggest objective.

Thank you in advance for any input. We started out looking for an older CC but like many of the floor plans better in the Monaco products for our needs.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:46 PM   #2
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Both the pre-EGR ISM 500 or the 2004 EGR Detroit S-60 are great engines. I will talk a little about the Detroit because that is what I have. I have not defeated the EGR yet so I am getting a solid 6.2 mpg average over 1500 mile trip while towing a Jeep Wrangler. The big problem is the 43,000 lbs of the Sig pulling 3000 lb Jeep. I took a trip with no Jeep and with care I could get 6.9-7.0 at 62 mph but it was flat out with zero wind. I think if a disabled the EGR I maybe could get another 0.5 mpg, maybe. I have heard that the pre-EGR ISM get 7.0 mpg at 62 mph. I can tell you this. For every one mph increase in speed from 62 mph I lose 0.1 mpg.

For full timing the Navigator and Sigs and even the Execs are worth it. The tag axle really adds stability. My Sig never wanders, or blows around in high winds.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:54 PM   #3
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My personal opinion, which doesn't mean much. You would be better off to buy the non EGR engine,much less to go wrong the early EGR engines were a real plain. I have a 03 in a04 Travel Supreme ISM 500 hp and get 7 mph @ 65 mph. It costs alround $2500 or more to replace EGR's,the less Epa that you have a diesel the better off you are. Hope this helps a little.

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Old 12-01-2014, 07:33 PM   #4
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I just got back from a 2200 mile trip. Averaged 5.6-6.0 mpg, but that is at 73 mph. This thing is a beast in the mountains and runs down the road effortlessly. In fact to beat some snow home ended up putting on 1144 miles on in one day. Other than being bored just sitting there it was not tiring at all. Can't go wrong with a tag or a big engine.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:25 AM   #5
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Listen to Mike. He is right on. Sigs, execs navigators are the way to go. Drive like a dream and have all of the accessories . Our coach is just now 10 years old. At a recent rv show I investigated all new coaches and would not consider trade. The bath and a half and full wall slides were interesting however.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:27 PM   #6
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Thanks everybody for the replies. It is very helpful.

These are pretty close numbers that we got with her ISL pulling a 24 foot enclosed trailer but at the posted speed limit. The trailer was aluminum and only had small racecars that my boys used to run.

I was hoping that the bigger engines could yeild similar mileage as it seemed like a lot of the families that ran with running toter conversions always did get better than I did.

Safe travels.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:00 PM   #7
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Again it depends on the total weight. A fellow racer has a beautiful toter with a Detroit and plus a stacker and gets 5 mpg. We have a Mack truck converted to a toter and pull a 40 ft trailer and get 6.5 mpg at 62 mph but it has a ten speed manual transmission. Used to have a Freightliner FL60 Sportschassis that I pulled a 44 ft trailer. It had a Mercedes 450 hp diesel with a automatic and I could get 8 mpg out of it. You would have to get a 2001 or a 2002 to get a ISM500 without EGR. The Detroit S-60 was never put into a MH without an EGR. There are several ways to bypass the EGR on a Detroit.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:08 PM   #8
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Thanks Mike. Is it true that if its a red top ISM than it would be a pre EGR motor?i found a 04 Sig that has a red top ISM. Lot of 04's are built in 03 so it plausible that it has an 02 motor.

And are all ISX's EGR motors? I don't think I have ever found a trucker that said they can get the same mileage from a ISX as they could from an old N14.

Thank you.
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:52 AM   #9
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I seriously doubt that Monaco would install a 2002 motor in a 2004 mh.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:58 PM   #10
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Mike, it can happen. My buddy ordered his 2008 Scepter in March 2007. I ordered mine in April. Monaco would rotate models for early release. In March 2007, Monaco started building the 2008 Camelot/Scepter line. And, Monaco had stocked up on the 2006 pre-DPF engines. Any Cummins ISL produced after Jan 1, 2007 would be required to have DPF. At the time we ordered, you could spec either the ISL 400 or the new ISL 425 with DPF.

Not wanting to be on the front end of the learning curve with DPF, I made sure Monaco still had 06 ISL 400 in stock, before ordering. Fortunately, they had 3 left. So, I wound up with a 2006 engine in a 2008 coach.

This is not the norm, I understand. I'm just saying it can happen, though.
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHiGuy View Post
Thanks Mike. Is it true that if its a red top ISM than it would be a pre EGR motor?i found a 04 Sig that has a red top ISM. Lot of 04's are built in 03 so it plausible that it has an 02 motor.

And are all ISX's EGR motors? I don't think I have ever found a trucker that said they can get the same mileage from a ISX as they could from an old N14.

Thank you.

I have a red top ISM in an '03 Sig. My engine was built in early Sept and installed in my '03 Sig in April '03. Cummins ended production on the non EGR non VG turbo in late Sept of '02. The ISM with EGR and VGT started at that time and it was '04 A compliant. The engine serial # is on the Monaco build sheet which Monaco will email to you. With that you can get the complete pedigree of the engine from Cummins.


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Old 12-03-2014, 06:38 PM   #12
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I will see if I can get some numbers on the coach I am considering.

Thanks everyone.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:02 PM   #13
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I have the Serial number but is the only way to interpret it to call Cummins or does somebody have a website that I could use?

I have not had any luck with google.

Thanks
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Old 12-05-2014, 09:33 PM   #14
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We have an 04 Signature with a 525HP 14 Liter Detroit Series 60. This thing will pass anything but a diesel pump. We have not yet defeated the EGR. From what I have read, defeating the EGR will improve fuel mileage 0.3 to 0.5 mpg. We've averaged 5-5.5 mpg over the past 5000+ miles. Our cruise speed has been 65mph most of the time with a few excursions to the 75mph range. The mileage drops to 4.8-5.0 mpg at 75mph.

We pulled an 8300 pound diesel pickup for the first 2500 miles and have now switched to a much lighter Ford Explorer.

It's hard for me to keep the speed down on the Interstates, even using cruise control, because this thing just runs and rides so nice at 75mph.
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