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Old 06-30-2015, 08:32 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
You all done dazzling US, with your knowledge .

If you know, don't ask.
Twin why would you say that?
Van was not bragging he will dig into the system until he finds a answer.
Van is the type guy that would go out of his way to help anyone, you included if you were broke down in his area, he and his wife would make you welcome and treat you like a long lost friend.
I have known Van for few yrs and have never heard him brag about anything and he is a skilled machinist ,mechanical engineer and pretty good mechanic.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:38 PM   #44
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Twin why would you say that?
Van was not bragging he will dig into the system until he finds a answer.
Van is the type guy that would go out of his way to help anyone, you included if you were broke down in his area, he and his wife would make you welcome and treat you like a long lost friend.
I have known Van for few yrs and have never heard him brag about anything and he is a skilled machinist ,mechanical engineer and pretty good mechanic.
What Walt Said !
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:42 PM   #45
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Interesting, a quick Google search yielded lots of posts about treadle valve failures and an apparently growing problem with internal corrosion. Now I gotta find out what kind I have, what its failure modes are and how to functionally test it.
Roy, let us know what you find out. I welded up a new bracket and replaced the original air dryer on my coach with the newer Wabco style. The previous owner was very good about most maintenance, but he admitted he had not serviced the dryer in years. I did open the drains on the tanks when I first got it a couple of years ago, and nothing but air come out. When I get around to delving into this, I'll pull my treadle valve and take a look inside it. Other than the ABS valving, the treadle valve seems the one most subject to corrosion damage. Since the air chambers are rolling-diaphragm construction, I think they either work or leak--nothing in between.

Even though I understand the concept that a very large vehicle like this might require somewhat greater pedal effort, I suspect it might have been a hard-sell to some folks in 2000 when the coach was new, if they really had to stand on the pedal to stop the beast.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:52 PM   #46
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g
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Just thinking out loud here, but given the experience we have had with the Sheppard vs TRW steering gear, I suppose it is quite possible that Monaco put differently calibrated treadle valves in some coaches for some reason (perhaps availability?). It seems reasonable to me that different weight class vehicles could have different valve calibration.

Are you adding rental parking to your MH shed?

Getting mine put up turned into a big PITA but I am sure glad I have it now with our scorching 105 degree heat. Now I am making up some roll-up shades to keep the sun off the ends and sides during parts of the day.
Did someone say SNOWFLAKE !!!!!

I will have parking for 4 coaches in the shade and power and water for at least 2
60' X 60' aircraft hanger is cheating but what the heck.
Van did have a ROCKIN Watts Link party.

As far as this thread is concerned I would also like less pedal pressure to apply the brakes. It feels excessive in a hard brake required situation. I have applied the brakes hard enough to ALMOST lock them, I hate people who think I am driving a KIA.

Are the valves calibrated or adjustable in ANY way or are they plug and play ?
Bolt on Swap ? Just thinking out loud
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:02 PM   #47
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Twin why would you say that?
Van was not bragging he will dig into the system until he finds a answer.
Van is the type guy that would go out of his way to help anyone, you included if you were broke down in his area, he and his wife would make you welcome and treat you like a long lost friend.
I have known Van for few yrs and have never heard him brag about anything and he is a skilled machinist ,mechanical engineer and pretty good mechanic.
But Walt is still my "hero"--The guy who can fix ANYTHING with NOTHING. Walt is an old-time, down-south, good ol' boy. Any time I'm about to "fix" something, and I run it past Walt, about half the time he'll say, "Aw, you don't need to do all that and spend so much money. Here, do this..." Walt is the "Mississippi MacGyver", and he will never tell you something that won't work!
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:16 PM   #48
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g

Did someone say SNOWFLAKE !!!!!

I will have parking for 4 coaches in the shade and power and water for at least 2
60' X 60' aircraft hanger is cheating but what the heck.
Van did have a ROCKIN Watts Link party.

As far as this thread is concerned I would also like less pedal pressure to apply the brakes. It feels excessive in a hard brake required situation. I have applied the brakes hard enough to ALMOST lock them, I hate people who think I am driving a KIA.

Are the valves calibrated or adjustable in ANY way or are they plug and play ?
Bolt on Swap ? Just thinking out loud
I think we need to nominate Craig for the next "Watts Link Party" host. His workshop is an abandoned "Super Walmart"...or it at least LOOKS that big!

Seriously, though, Craig and I met at Perry, GA the last time the FMCA national rally was there. We talked about whether he should rebuild his crappy Sheppard steering gear. I suggested changing to a TRW gear, even though it would be a beast of a job, requiring a lot of welding and fabrication at my house. Next thing I know, Craig has engineered a multitude of "bolt-on" swaps and helped DOZENS of dispirited Monaco owners start driving with two fingers...in a crosswind.

There are soooo many folks on this forum with great skills that are willing to do most anything to help a fellow RV'er. I am really humbled sometimes by the good-heartedness of so many folks. "Pay it forward!!" With the help of so many of you, I'm sure we'll come to some solution of the "heavy brake pedal effort" problem. Thanks again to all of you for your help and suggestions.
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Old 06-30-2015, 11:47 PM   #49
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Van,
I will but it may be a little while before I get to it. We are headed south for week over the 4th with the kids and kids' kids, then back home to some medical care for my mom. But I will post what I find.

My Winnebago DP definitely stopped faster and with less pedal effort, so I am interested in seeing what I can do to make this coach better. At least a good inspection is in order to make sure the slack adjusters and S-cams are free and properly lubed and the brake linings are not overly glazed.

I think we may have a new project here!

Craig, Deb keeps telling me we need to make a trip back east to see you guys and Van and Sandy (and some Al and S.C. family). Maybe I should listen to her more.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:31 AM   #50
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Van,
I will but it may be a little while before I get to it. We are headed south for week over the 4th with the kids and kids' kids, then back home to some medical care for my mom. But I will post what I find.

My Winnebago DP definitely stopped faster and with less pedal effort, so I am interested in seeing what I can do to make this coach better. At least a good inspection is in order to make sure the slack adjusters and S-cams are free and properly lubed and the brake linings are not overly glazed.

I think we may have a new project here!

Craig, Deb keeps telling me we need to make a trip back east to see you guys and Van and Sandy (and some Al and S.C. family). Maybe I should listen to her more.

Roy,

AGREED...if nothing more a FULL brake inspection is in order. We all might take the fact the brakes "work" as good enough, but as one of the early post related to finding something, anything , out of adjustment or that needs attention in the braking system of these 40K LB monsters should be higher on the importance list.

Would I EVER change something without professional input...NO (same as the steering gear issue) But like Van and you I like something to be "right" not just good enough. If the braking system is the best it can be then so be it. I will make sure there are no weak areas or adjustments that need attention with a full detailed inspection and move on...or STOP ON ! Good call before the Alaska Adventure.

Some research on the braking system is in order and finding a good coach brake mechanic in my area could also be in order.

Come EAST young man ! You know you are welcome ANY time at Right Rudder Ranch. Given a few more weeks I will have the RV door in the side of the hanger and power for a few coaches.
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Old 07-01-2015, 06:08 AM   #51
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This file is too large to upload. Go to the link and download it. It is outstanding information.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEV...dzLjD2robpV6g-
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Bendix ATC troubleshooting.pdf (1.30 MB, 39 views)
File Type: pdf Air system schematic.pdf (283.7 KB, 25 views)
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:11 AM   #52
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YCI that is very good information on the "Bendix" brake system. I doubt I have that one, but it would be nice if I did. Somehow I have a tendency to think the bean counters always go for the least expensive items when they build these RVs. I'm thinking of the shower valve etc. Sanford
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:47 AM   #53
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Craig,
You say it well. Good enough is simply not good enough for our brakes. That's the same approach I saw when you started on the TRW swap project and look where it took us. I like it! Guess I will be doing some downtime reading over the 4th!

Your ranch sounds like a neat place. So much room for so many tools!!!
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:05 AM   #54
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Good input on the brakes from everyone. We'll all put our heads together and see what we come up with. I think it will turn out that all the treadle valves are similar in design. I want to find out why some installations take so much less pedal force than others. It seems too simple to be the case, but could different coach makers simply be attaching the treadle valve at a shorter or longer lever arm with respect to the brake pedal pivot? I'm sure we will collectively find out.

Thanks for everyone's input and help. There are some really, really good mechanical minds represented here. Special thanks to you guys that posted links. I got a lotta reading to do!

RIGHT RUDDER RANCH!!! That dang prop-jockey has a horseshoe up his tight whipper-snapper butt! I'm going to go visit and mooch off him for spite!
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:39 AM   #55
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Just my two cents worth. I owned a 93 Dynasty, a 99 Dynasty, and now my 08 Camelot, with all drums and with disc/drums, with both manual and automatic slack adjusters.

By keeping the brakes adjusted each trip, I never felt lacking for braking ability. Pedal effort was not an issue, whether the pedal hinged from the floor or swung down from the firewall.

After reading on this forum years ago about applying the brakes firmly 6 times, while coach was on level ground and parking brake off, I found that the pedal took less travel when stopping and seemed more sensitive. And, it kept me from crawling underneath to do the adjustment. The sensitivity issue might just be from that the brakes starting to apply sooner.

Once one reads about the functionality of the air brake system, and understands it, he will be able to maximize the braking ability as designed, with doing the maintenance required. All the bases have to be covered before "reinventing the wheel."

Saying that, there might be some cases where improvement can be made with reinventing. After the X braces, steering gear swap, and watts link addition, I understand where improvements are beneficial.

Just throwing out that if the brakes are out of adjustment, they are not going to respond as designed. Just saying.
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Old 07-01-2015, 12:08 PM   #56
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Good points. Maybe we aren't keping them adjusted properly. I know I haven't regularly
Performed the adjustment procedure you describe.
Harry, any thoughts about glazed linings?
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