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Old 07-01-2015, 02:19 PM   #57
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I press my brake rather hard when letting the air out prior to leveling. With only 30K miles on the rv I doubt there is very much wear. I can see the brake pads and they are really thick. I do keep everything lubed well.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:10 PM   #58
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After reading on this forum years ago about applying the brakes firmly 6 times, while coach was on level ground and parking brake off, I found that the pedal took less travel when stopping and seemed more sensitive.

The above is from Happycraz. Thanks I will now release my "parking" brake, before I pump and release the brake pedal. Sanford
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Old 07-01-2015, 04:56 PM   #59
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If you baby the brakes as so many of us do, they will tend to glaze, then you get squeak/squeal. That what they make mountains for. A few substantial applications should heat them up and remove the glaze. Any time mine start squeaking, I turn off the PacBrake and use the service brakes more firmly. Works for me.

Freeway off ramps will work too, as long as it is safe behind you. I tend to let my PacBrake slow me down on the exit ramps until I'm down to second gear, then apply the service brakes. If I do that too much, the squeaking raises its ugly head as a reminder to heat them up once in a while.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:17 PM   #60
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Well, I have seldom ever used full braking authority, so I probably need to implement Harry's procedure.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:45 PM   #61
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I'm a Canadian and up here you have to have an air ticket to drive anything with air brakes. I've had my air ticket since the 50s and I am also a heavy duty mechanic. I think
having to have a ticket a good thing but for the RV drivers I would like to see an air ticket
for Rvs as the tickets we get here are for semis which is a lot more difficult system. up here you have to know how to adjust your own brakes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:01 PM   #62
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Well, guys, here is what I've learned so far. Perhaps most important is that every treadle valve assembly diagram I've looked at seems very similar. They are all essentially foot operated air pressure regulators. The resistance you feel as you press the brake pedal is the pressure required to compress an internal spring in the treadle valve. And if you press the brake pedal hard enough, you will "feel" that it has encountered a hard stop. If things are working properly, at that hard stop, you would be applying full available system pressure to your brake canisters.

I've done quite a bit of reading, and have yet to find any mention of different treadle valves being offered to yield different required pedal pressures. Nor have I read anything that would say something akin to "Large vehicle air brakes are DESIGNED to require large amounts of pedal pressure".

Harry is a sharp mechanical guy, and his advice to periodically apply very harsh deceleration to "condition" the brakes is something I've not tried yet, but surely will. Harry, do you think that just "riding" the service brakes while driving down the highway would do the same thing? It would certainly get them hot, but it would not be from severe braking. Like most folks, I suppose, I drive defensively and seldom find myself applying anything other than modest service brake deceleration.

I also tried a modified version of Sanford's suggestion about applying the brakes heavily several times before moving the coach, thereby giving the auto slack adjusters the opportunity to adjust themselves. What I read in several places was that the almost universal procedure used by law enforcement to test for compliance with brake adjustment laws was to turn off the engine, bleed pressure to 90-100 PSI, and then perform the stroke test. I knew I wanted to do that procedure multiple times, and to keep from constantly restarting the engine, I just hooked up my large air compressor to the coach's external air input, and set my regulator at 100 PSI. When I first performed the stroke test, my brakes were in "spec" but at their limit of almost 2". After multiple applications of full brake pedal stroke against its internal hard stop, that dimension decreased to less than 1-1/2". That is apparently "OK", but on my previous coach with manual slack adjusters, the procedure was to reduce the stroke to about 1". I do not think I have ever felt that "hard stop" in even the few "extreme" stops I have had to make.

Conclusion? I don't really have one yet. I need to drive my coach since giving the auto slack adjusters an opportunity to adjust. Weather and family obligations did not cooperate today. Hoping to get a test drive tomorrow. But I don't expect to see any significant improvement in the "pedal effort vs. deceleration" due to the adjustment. Perhaps Harry's severe deceleration exercise will yield something.

The one thing that is irrefutable is that we know similar coaches stop with considerably different pedal effort, as reported by owners of two or more similar coaches that braked differently.

There is ALWAYS an answer. We'll find it.

Celebrate the Fourth of July! Many, many ordinary folks like you and me gave their lives so we might have this "gift". Cherish it! Guard it!
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:17 PM   #63
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Riding the brakes to get them hot will just add to the glazing problem. The heat and force is what does the trick. Try two very firm stops from 60 mph to see if you can increase the coefficient of friction, making them more sensitive.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:26 PM   #64
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Another "experiment" would be to manually adjust the brakes to a 1" stroke. Just follow the procedure for the type/brand of slack adjusters on your coach. There are variations and you can get into trouble if not done properly. Not to worry Van, that is something you can handle with your skills. Just follow the book.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:15 PM   #65
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Update

Guys, I just got finished installing a pressure gage on the driver side front air chamber. Sitting stationary in my shed, when the brake pedal is pressed to its internal "hard stop" I get full system pressure at the brake chamber. So, it's not a treadle valve problem...at least at the front.

I'll attach the gage setup to one of the rear brake chambers to be absolutely certain the rear is getting full system pressure also. But I expect it to be the same.

Full disclosure: My 2000 Dynasty has ABS, which should make wheel lock-up difficult, even if there was ample braking power. HOWEVER, after driving the coach in a hellacious rainstorm a few weeks ago, the ABS warning light has been on since. A heavy truck mechanic I trust said that any time the warning light is on, the ABS is inactive in a passive sense, but that if I had any doubt to simply remove the two fuses that feed the front and rear ABS and check again.

So now it's time to pull a drum and have a look. I'll keep you posted.
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:30 AM   #66
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This post is several years old now:

I have an 08 Endeavor and it has acted up on occasion too. This is a common issue but on a recent trip mine came on and stayed on. Shutting the engine off and on did not help as in the past. Lots of folks mention cleaning the sensors but there is no way to clean the ones on my mh. The following information is copied from previous threads and I keep a copy to quote from.

"In the front run bay, there is a relay with a reset button specifically for the purposes of resetting it--somehow--check owner's manual or call Monaco tech support...I bet with all the disconnecting you did, you might have thrown the relay for a loop.
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Also try turning off batteries. You might need to drive over 5 mph to get them to reset."

My front run bay does not have a reset button. I actually looked for one yesterday and did not find one. Turning off the batteries might clear it for awhile.

Here is how I think I resolved mine. I am an ET with 40 yrs in the vehicle electronics installation business. Not abs or such but radios etc. Cop car build ups and fire trucks so some excellent experience.

Mine too was intermittent and weather sometimes seemed to be the cause but a particular bump I go over seemed to trigger it on more than one occasion. Once the light is on the cruise control does not lock on my unit.

As I was trying to figure out how to remove the sensors I discovered they have a long pigtail going to a plug. Research showed me that they should have about 1700 ohms resistance. Following the wire to the plug the first one over the rear axel showed signs of water corrosion on the pins. I cleaned all four sensors and checked their resistance. Using some WD 40 on each connector before reconnecting them should help keep the water out. I only found one that was really suspect and a second that showed only slight signs of water. Since doing this I have not had an issue. We just took a 300 mile trip and it worked perfectly. I am confident this solved my problem.

Except they came on again on a shorter trip after hitting that special bump on hwy 20.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For a long time I was afraid to pull the front sensors out because they seemed very very tight. I finally gave one a twist and it moved. It came out without much effort after that. It was very greasy and had a large clump of grease and grime on the end of the left front one. The lump was about 1/8 inch thick. This definitely could be the issue. After cleaning them I test drove a short distance and no issues. The sensors do not go in as far as you might think. There is quite a bit still sticking out once inserted. There is a copper/brass looking insert the sensor sits in. Mine seemed to be in pretty good shape but that clump of grease on the one was significant.


The rear ones seem to be accessible only by pulling the wheels so they were never removed for cleaning.
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Old 07-12-2015, 12:55 PM   #67
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Success!!

OK, guys, I ordered new drums and shoes, and S-cam shaft seals, but none of that has come yet. In the interest of keeping this exercise true to the scientific method (change only one thing at a time), I fixed what I thought might be part of the problem, reassembled everything, and went for a road test.

DRAMATICALLY REDUCED PEDAL PRESSURE AND INCREASED BRAKING POWER!

I was a bit surprised by this result, because without new drum and shoes, I expected very little improvement. WRONG! The reason I expected no significant improvement is that what I did was so simple. The only thing I changed was to polish up the "axles" of the S-cam rollers and the anchor pins (where the stationary end of the brake shoe rotates), polish the seats of the S-cam rollers and anchor pins in the shoes, clean the S-cams, and reassemble using ANTI-SEIZE compound sparingly on the anchor pins and S-cam rollers. Essentially, all I did was a "clean-up and lube" on my brakes! The bushings in which the S-camshaft turns were in good condition, as were the grease seals.

Interesting note on the S-camshaft grease seals. The outermost one (nearest the shoes) is installed conventionally with the lip facing inward to prevent grease in the camshaft housing from entering the brake shoe area. The innermost seal (nearest the slacks) is installed backwards, so that if you overfill the camshaft housing, the excess grease comes out next to the slacks.

On my test drive today, I did not lock up the front brakes, but had the feeling that I could have. I did NOT hit the "hard stop" as I had before. The braking force was so much improved that I thought things would go flying around in the coach. I know that the braking force was considerably higher, though, just by the seat of my pants. Also, a coffeemaker that had always ridden in our sink (and survived the last brake test) catapulted out of the sink onto the couch.

Bear in mind that this was what I did to the front brakes ONLY. I'm about to go back outside (100*--HOT) and yank the rear drums to do the same procedure. Also, although my coach has 132K on the clock, and the brake drums had never been removed, that other than the lack of lubrication of the rollers and anchor pins, I thought they were in reasonably good condition. Based on the amount of lining material left, I would say the shoes were good for another 200K miles.

We all know not to expect the brake pedal to feel like an automobile with hydraulic brakes--with air brakes you simply don't have "pedal feedback" as you do in a car. But the pedal effort is so much reduced that I think I might finally be willing to let my wife try to drive it. She has been wanting to do so for some time, but I was hesitant that she would not have the strength to effect an emergency stop with the service brakes. She is in decent health, not frail, but not a powerful woman.

I have never heard or read that "brake lubrication" was on anyone's regular routine maintenance list. It will certainly be on mine from now on.

BTW, the "creaking / popping" noise I heard when heavy braking was the S-cams "skidding" over the rollers instead of rotating them. That noise is completely gone. And the drums, although not removed in 15 years, came off easily after backing off the slacks.

Back to the inferno...
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:05 PM   #68
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That "popping" was pretty dramatic on ours. More like a loud bang occurring on a hard stop, sometimes resulting in a pretty good jerk on the steering wheel. Same deal though - a semi frozen S cam issue. Point being, being through that taught me about the lube requirements there. FWIW, -Al
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Old 07-12-2015, 02:12 PM   #69
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I'm new to this Forum and read this thread with interest because we are still looking for our first coach.

Yesterday, I drove a Newmar Kountry Star with the brake pedal hinged at the floor. The "traditional" air brake pedal set-up. I was surprised at the amount of effort required to activate what I considered to be moderate braking. In fact, it was a little unnerving at the lack of travel in the pedal. I've driven other coaches and this one was the first the seemed to have NO TRAVEL in the pedal.

After reading this thread it appears the pedal travel is unique to the coach even when the chassis is the same. Thanks for educating a newbie. The information I'm learning here is making the quest for a coach a very fun experience.

Thanks to all.
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Old 07-12-2015, 03:46 PM   #70
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Van if you are out working in this heat you are one dedicated Rv mechanic, i am surprised at Sandy wanting to drive the coach I don't think Wilma wants to drive and I am relived that she don't. In the early 90s we were in Alexandra LA on a trip in a class C RV and I got extreamly ill and could not drive she said no problem she would take us home and she did like A bat out of hell, I have never asked her to drive again I think she was on 70 + the whole dang trip home.
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