Fan stuck wide open

[William Willard]

Originally Posted by TR4

Windecker, thanks for all your help and information regarding the termo wax valve and it’s operation. I’ve alread purchased all the parts needed for the wax valve conversion. Parts including the weld on bung, wax valve, all fittings and hoses came to a total of $389-. I ordered the wax valve from England at a cost of $296-. Looks like they’re going up in price.

I the came across this;
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Sauer-Sundst...item3adaf5555c

What do you think? It says it’s adjustable. At $110-, I think it would be worth a try.

I’ll post the parts list if anyone is interested.

Bill

Bill What size orifice are you using ? --

[TR4]

Originally Posted by William Willard

Bill What size orifice are you using ? --

Here’s the data sheet;

Fittings;
6400-06-05 - 3/8" JIC (9/16"-18 thread) x 5/16" ORB (1/2"-20 thread) Male—this fitting goes on the (in) of wax valve

6400-06-04 - 3/8" JIC (9/16"-18 thread) x 1/4" ORB (7/16"-20 thread) Male—
This fitting goes on the (out) of wax valve

The first numbers (6400-xx-xx) are the part numbers. The fittings were purchased from; https://www.hydraulicsdirect.com

These fittings are for #6 JIC fitting.

For hoses I measured from the wax valve to the (P) pilot port and the (T) tank port on the hydraulic fan motor. I needed about 60” of hose. I used 1/4” hose with #6 JIC fittings. They also come in #4.

I purchased pre made hoses from here;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29117282794...&ul_noapp=true

You can also buy JIC reducers to go from #6 to #4 JIC.

Bill

[William Willard]

TR4 -- Bill - I did not see an orifice in your parts list -- Have you already installed your wax valve -- If so, is your fan turning at idle speed -- I`ve installed my wax valve using about the same parts, but I`m still experimenting with different orifice sizes so I can get the fan speed I need so the dash air will work properly -- Don`t want to screw that up -- Bill Willard

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by William Willard

TR4 -- Bill - I did not see an orifice in your parts list -- Have you already installed your wax valve -- If so, is your fan turning at idle speed -- I`ve installed my wax valve using about the same parts, but I`m still experimenting with different orifice sizes so I can get the fan speed I need so the dash air will work properly -- Don`t want to screw that up -- Bill Willard

Bill you may want read this old thread about my rig early on here at iRV2 and see if it's of any help to you

response #9

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/newb...es-254122.html

Hope this made some sense.

FYI Scott @ Source is pretty sharp IMO and I was stunned that he called me back and spent a fair amount of time with me. He's Sources Mobil guy and a good connection to have IMO.

Happy Hunting.

[William Willard]

RobRoy -- I did go back & read your post -- I`ve been trying different orifices just to test the fan speed -- With a .020 orifice the fan does not turn -- .019 it turns about 600 rpm`s -- I have a .018 on order & will see what that does -- The .018 orifice I ordered is half the price from Source -- Bill Willard

[Jeff753]

Originally Posted by larry koenn

With reguard to Mileage and fan speed. My fan has run at full speed for two years and got 6 mpg on good days. I have a Scanguage and also check when filling up. I got the kit from Source Engineering last month and installed it while in Tonto Basin, Arizona. The first and second day on the road to California I got up to 7 mph pushing against a side and head wind, at times wind up to 40 mph. The final day with no wind mileage went up to almost 9 mpg. I've never seen it that high, and there is a big difference in how fast the fuel gauge drops.



Cooling was very good, I could hear the fans spool up at around 193 degrees when going up hill and shut down as temperature got below 185. I run 180 degree thermostats and it ran at 183 most of the time.



I wish I had made this conversion two years ago, it will pay for its self quickly at the miles I drive every year. Headed to Alaska asap.



Larry. 1998 Monaco Executive M-11 pulling a crew cab GMC Sierra

. I love you! I get 6 with my fan stuck wao. I’m pretty sure I just need to swap the two hoses that appear to be reversed. Reading this I’m heading down to do it Tuesday. Got my 3 filters and 6 gallons of dextron to change the filters to make the hoses drip less. I was a bit scared to tackle it but 8 mpg I’m all in.

[TR4]

Originally Posted by William Willard

TR4 -- Bill - I did not see an orifice in your parts list -- Have you already installed your wax valve -- If so, is your fan turning at idle speed -- I`ve installed my wax valve using about the same parts, but I`m still experimenting with different orifice sizes so I can get the fan speed I need so the dash air will work properly -- Don`t want to screw that up -- Bill Willard

Originally Posted by RobRoy

Bill you may want read this old thread about my rig early on here at iRV2 and see if it's of any help to you

response #9

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/newb...es-254122.html

Hope this made some sense.

FYI Scott @ Source is pretty sharp IMO and I was stunned that he called me back and spent a fair amount of time with me. He's Sources Mobil guy and a good connection to have IMO.

Happy Hunting.

Bill an RobRoy,

I haven’t installed my wax valve yet. I wanted to get all the needed parts together first. I know about the A/C high pressure problem. Old Scout, a member here, had a great solution to this. He moved his condenser to the front and installed electric fans. So in anticipation of this wax valve conversion, I moved my condenser off the radiator stack to the front. I also moved the dryer up front. The existing trinary switch turns on the two electric fans when A/C pressures get high.

You guys have done a great job figuring all this out, I’m just taking your ideas for my project.

Bill

[Jeff753]

Originally Posted by William Willard

Jeff -- Any news -- Bill Willard

I was a bit afraid tackle this but not anymore. I just read these latest post on going from 6 to 8 mpg. I get 6;(. Headed to the rig Tuesday. Will report.

[Windecker]

I had my second wax valve failure last year and during the troubleshooting Source explained how to adjust the valve. In my case, the valve was an out of box failure which is likely why they tried to help me adjust it. I will have to double check my spare valve to see if I remember exactly where that adjustment was.

As I recall, as you turn the screw, the fan will start increasing or decreasing speed at a lower temperature or higher, depending on which way you turn it. I believe full on is still full on at the preset temp but I am not positive about that. I believe his words were something like: As you turn the screw the fan comes in earlier.
I don't recall which way does what though and I doubt I still have my hastily written notes about it from that day
Windecker

Originally Posted by William Willard

Windecker -- Where did you get the info that the valve is adjustable -- I have one here in the shop & I see no set screw after removing the top cap -- The 2 numbers on the wax valve, before the last 3(210) indicates the temp that the valve is fully open -- The number, 5-531-098-51-210 has a fully open temp of 131 degrees -- a # 52 is fully open @ 154 degrees -- A # 53 is 169 degrees -- A # 54 is 180 degrees -- A # 55 is 187 degrees -- A # 56 is 194 degrees -- a # 57 is 199 degrees -- A # 58 is 205 degrees -- A # 59 is fully open @ 212 degrees --The valve you should be using is the # 57, witch is fully open at 199 degrees -- Bill Willard

[Old Scout]

...been awhile since I messed with all this but it seems kind of contrary that they have at least thee different models of valve, based on temperature settings. Just hard to believe they would need/sell different models if the values were adjustable??????

[CountryB]

Originally Posted by Old Scout

...been awhile since I messed with all this but it seems kind of contrary that they have at least thee different models of valve, based on temperature settings. Just hard to believe they would need/sell different models if the values were adjustable??????

maybe the adjustment controls the fan speed or rate of opening before the valve is fully opened.

[Jeff753]

Originally Posted by djhinds

Windecker, when I replaced my thermovalve as my fan ran wide open all the time it made a nice difference in engine temp and MPG. I now run 182/185 all the time until I work it hard going uphill then the highest temp I have seen was 195 but for only a short time. My MPG immediately jumped up 1.5 to 2 MPG. Used to get 6/6.5, now I get a consistent 7.5 all read on my VSMpc over 2500 miles. Now I don't have to worry about other RV's on the pass side as I drive thru gravel road campgrounds, (the dust cloud was HUGE).....

Dave

That’s me! It appears when they replaced the radiator a couple years before I bought her they swapped the in/out hoses:(

I get 6, I weigh 43,000 with a 350 ISC so the 10-50 hp it steals is killing me.

It took me 5 years and iRV2 to realize my fan shouldn’t be that dam loud on start up. Got me looking and discovered reverse hoses which is said to cause the fan to run WAO

I cannot wait to swap the hoses and report back but alas...delayed

[Jeff753]

Originally Posted by Windecker

I had my second wax valve failure last year and during the troubleshooting Source explained how to adjust the valve. In my case, the valve was an out of box failure which is likely why they tried to help me adjust it. I will have to double check my spare valve to see if I remember exactly where that adjustment was.



As I recall, as you turn the screw, the fan will start increasing or decreasing speed at a lower temperature or higher, depending on which way you turn it. I believe full on is still full on at the preset temp but I am not positive about that. I believe his words were something like: As you turn the screw the fan comes in earlier.

I don't recall which way does what though and I doubt I still have my hastily written notes about it from that day

Windecker

Want me to try to read them for you? ;))

[Windecker]

Pictures of the adjustment:

Using a 5 mm Allen type wrench, remove the end cap, it might be tight! Be careful, the whole assembly swivels so you will need to hold it with a wrench, pliers or whatever. If doing this with the valve installed I am sure you will loose a little fluid. Inside this is the orifice that the hydraulic fluid is flowing through. ABSOLUTELY don't take this off with the engine running!


Inside the unit is threaded all the way down. My valve adjuster or spring stop appears to be adjusted about 1/2 way down the body.


Using a 5 MM Allen type wrench, the spring cap (adjuster) can easily be threaded in or out to tweak the orifice controller.


I would like to be clear on this, I am not recommending anyone mess with this adjustment if things are working well. I was only told about this to try to get me "unstuck" from a remote location.

I view this as a customizing the valve to YOUR coaches needs rather than a standard installation. Various factors come into play that without proper test equipment and knowledge that could be bad if done incorrectly.

Reading through all this thread has encouraged me to "possibly" tweak my setting just a little to try to improve my mileage as my engine is running on the cool side anyway. My fan does NOT run WAO all the time but if it is "coming in" a little early that would cool it more and eat a bit of fuel.

I would like to get a few trips under my belt after the winter break before messing with it so I can properly document what changes happen with small adjustments.

Hopefully this all helps someone down the road...
Windecker

Originally Posted by William Willard

Windecker -- Where did you get the info that the valve is adjustable -- I have one here in the shop & I see no set screw after removing the top cap -- The 2 numbers on the wax valve, before the last 3(210) indicates the temp that the valve is fully open -- The number, 5-531-098-51-210 has a fully open temp of 131 degrees -- a # 52 is fully open @ 154 degrees -- A # 53 is 169 degrees -- A # 54 is 180 degrees -- A # 55 is 187 degrees -- A # 56 is 194 degrees -- a # 57 is 199 degrees -- A # 58 is 205 degrees -- A # 59 is fully open @ 212 degrees --The valve you should be using is the # 57, witch is fully open at 199 degrees -- Bill Willard