RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-27-2018, 05:49 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Jeff753's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,775
Fan stuck wide open

I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I donít know what itís supposed to sound like but on first start up itís roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.
__________________

__________________
Jeff
2001 Monaco Dynasty tag axle
2006 Jeep Wrangler
Jeff753 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-27-2018, 06:12 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
2 Stroker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Warren, Oregon
Posts: 2,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff753 View Post
I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I donít know what itís supposed to sound like but on first start up itís roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.
Sounds like your Sourer-Danfoss controller has left you high and dry. You might pull the I think 3 wires off and clean them and replace or get a new one or get the wax valve. I had mine replaced with the wax valve 2 years ago, works great.
Source Engineering Inc | Custom RV Chassis | Eugene, OR
2 stroker
__________________

__________________
2006 Country Coach Inspire 360 40ft Genoa Designer Series, Samsung 197 RR
Cat C9--STEEL & COPPER Bolt Together Radiator w/ updated rubber mounting
SilverLeaf 330 Magnum 2812 PSW 2011 Ford Edge Sport-Air Force One
2 Stroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2018, 07:00 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,909
Jeff,
I was having a similar problem after having my radiator replaced. The shop ulimtately contaminated the wax thermovalve causing the fan to run wide open.

I contacted Monaco tech support and they provided me with a series of test to see if it was the thermovalve or the fan motor. I cannot find the exact instructions so I recommend calling/emailing them to see if they can work you through it.

Ultimately I had to change my thermovalve. I ended up buying from White House Products, cost was ~$260. PN 553/1/09857/210
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2018, 07:01 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
DtBt's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Leonard,MD
Posts: 736
It definately is stuck on wide open. It should only turn slowly until you get to about 195 degrees. You might try reversing the lines on the wax valve. I have heard that they have been reversed even on new coaches.
The info I have on a new wax valve is:
Hydraulic Gear Pumps | White House Products | Hydraulic Pumps source for sauer wax valve 553/1/09857/210

I doubt a radiator shop will be familiar with this system.
__________________
2005 Safari Panther Diamond IV Cat C13
2013 Avalanche Toad
DtBt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2018, 08:24 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,909
I went back through my files and found an email exchange with Jesse Covington, a Monaco service tech, regarding testing the hydraulic cooling system.

My symptoms were that once the engine heated up and the thermostat opened the fan would run wide open, would never stop until engine was shut off and cooled down but would do the same thing once started again.

I did try reversing the lines thinking that the Cummins shop reversed them when reinstalled, it didn't fix the problem.

He had me do 2 tests,

Remove the 2 hydraulic lines, make sure to mark which one goes where.

Test 1 was to plug both hoses and start the coach, the fan ran wide open.

Test 2 I put a union and connected both hoses, the fan ran at idle.

These test really show that the motor and proportional speed control works, basically showing that the thermovalve was making the fan run at high speed.

Based on this he thought the thermovalve was bad and I replaced.

After I swapped out he thermovalve I did look at the old one and ultimately found a piece of fabric/threads in the valve, Cummins tech probably wrapped in a rag and contaminated it.
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 05:24 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Jeff753's Avatar


 
Monaco Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
Sounds like your Sourer-Danfoss controller has left you high and dry. You might pull the I think 3 wires off and clean them and replace or get a new one or get the wax valve. I had mine replaced with the wax valve 2 years ago, works great.

Source Engineering Inc | Custom RV Chassis | Eugene, OR

2 stroker

My 2001 Dynasty has a wax valve according to the manual. Is that different than the danfoss controller? Iíll get under there and check for wires but I donít recall seeing wires. Anyone have a part number for a wax valve for a 01 Dynasty?
__________________
Jeff
2001 Monaco Dynasty tag axle
2006 Jeep Wrangler
Jeff753 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 06:23 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
oldmattb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 339
Our 1998 Windsor came from the factory with a restrictor in the hydraulic line - kept the fan running at lower temperature to reduce dash AC head pressure.

On advice from Source Engineering, I removed the restrictor, drilled out the orifice to a larger size, and reinstalled - problem solved. Had I not spent a day chasing wax valve problems that didn't exist, this would have been a 30 minute job.

Ask Source about this to see if it applies to your coach. Better a free repair you do need, over a $600 repair you don't.

I hope this helps!

Matt B
__________________
Matt B
1998 Monaco Windsor
oldmattb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 06:58 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 4,909
Here is where I bought my replacement. You will have to register to get a price but once I did that it was a seemless transaction and fast shipping.

553/1/09857/210 | HYDRAULIC GEAR MOTORS & FAN CONTROL VALVES | White House Products

If you are not sure of the PN you could take yours off to confirm
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 07:35 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
William Willard's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,488
The wax valve # 5531-09857-210 opens full at 199 degrees -- However, to regulate fan speed you will need an orifice in the line -- I experimented with different size orifices & a .019 orifice had the fan @ about 700 rpm`s at idle, witch should be OK for the dash air to operate -- The smaller the orifice, faster the fan -- I have a wax valve # 5531-09855-210 , but it opens at 187 degrees & that`s to cold for a diesel engine -- Bill Willard
William Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 04:15 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 643
You were asking about wires. There are no wires only hydraulic lines or you can call them
hoses.
__________________
Peter
36 ft 98 Dynasty
98 Suzuki Sidekick Sport 4 door
oldguy70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 05:01 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
2 Stroker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Warren, Oregon
Posts: 2,027
Well, I had a lapse of memory Country Coach and Monaco even with side radiator cool in a different way. Mine had the Sourer-Danfoss controller (12v) system that went bad that controls the temp run the hyd oil for the fan. They removed the oil lines, welded a bung into the top coolant pipe installed the wax valve installed the 2 hoses going to the fan.
Did not mean to take this thread in the wrong direction.
2 stroker
__________________
2006 Country Coach Inspire 360 40ft Genoa Designer Series, Samsung 197 RR
Cat C9--STEEL & COPPER Bolt Together Radiator w/ updated rubber mounting
SilverLeaf 330 Magnum 2812 PSW 2011 Ford Edge Sport-Air Force One
2 Stroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 06:56 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Windecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Logan Indiana (Near Cincinnati Ohio)
Posts: 418
This is where I got mine,(see link in quoted text) fast shipping and believe it or not, cheaper to ship overseas than in our own country!

Regarding testing, just put a small ball valve inline with the hydraulic hoses. If you open the valve the fan runs slow, as you close the valve the fan speeds up. You are simulating the wax valve when your opening and closing the ball valve. I believe they are -4 flair tubing size hoses.

Yes, some have electric valves as well that will kick the fan speed up when demanded by the ECM regardless of the wax valve lack of command. On my Signature it was a small solenoid valve in series with the hydraulic control hoses.
I believe the temp sensor in the CAC would kick the fan on if it sensed high intake temperatures. Of course, high intake temperatures means engine is likely working hard so this would not only cool the hot intake air but get a jump on the upcoming shot of hot coolant that was going to be following soon LOL.

Terrible pictures but this was the solenoid valve in my Signature from my radiator change in 07.
Windecker

Name:   Radiator valve.jpg
Views: 615
Size:  17.6 KB

Click image for larger version

Name:	Radiator valve 2.JPG
Views:	111
Size:	885.7 KB
ID:	190587
This might have just been in ISM 11 installs, not sure.
The wax valve itself is a piece of cake to replace. Done from the aft side of the radiator in my case(s).
Windecker

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
Here is where I bought my replacement. You will have to register to get a price but once I did that it was a seemless transaction and fast shipping.

553/1/09857/210 | HYDRAULIC GEAR MOTORS & FAN CONTROL VALVES | White House Products

If you are not sure of the PN you could take yours off to confirm
__________________
RV #5 1999 Monaco Signature Slide ISM 11 450
RV #6 2005 Monaco Executive 43PBQ Detroit Series 60
Honda Fit, Odyssey or Cargo trailer in tow.
Windecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2018, 07:51 PM   #13
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff753 View Post
I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I donít know what itís supposed to sound like but on first start up itís roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.
Jeff, you have received a lot of good advice from several great guys. Your solution depends primarily on whether your coach was ORIGINALLY equipped with the Sauer-Danfoss electronic valve or a thermal wax controller. My 2000 Dynasty, Oregon-built in late 1999, was originally equipped with a wax controller. It is a small device plugged into the top rear of the radiator with two small hydraulic lines attached to it. It is my understanding (no personal experience) that the Sauer-Danfoss valve had wires attached to it. Determine which controller you have before proceeding. I know that if my coach had a part which required months to receive and cost nearly $1000, I would definitely seek an alternate solution. It is also my understanding that some radiator fans run wide open for a short time after initially starting the engine, and that behavior is normal. Sorry I could not be more help--never had any trouble with mine.
__________________
Van W 2000 Dynasty 36, pulling one Harley
Southeastern NC
Vanwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2018, 06:00 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Windecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Logan Indiana (Near Cincinnati Ohio)
Posts: 418
This is the set up I made to test mine. The gauge is to read the pressure while on full at highway speed RPM, 1500-1800 Don't remember the exacts but I believe it was supposed to read roughly 3000 PSI at full on. The valve part was used to regulate it as described in my previous post.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Wax Valve testing.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	263.4 KB
ID:	190615

It simply hooks to the end of the hoses that attach to the wax valve so the wax valve is not hooked up for this test.
Hope that helps!
As Vanwill stated, you do need to know which system you have though.
Windecker
__________________

__________________
RV #5 1999 Monaco Signature Slide ISM 11 450
RV #6 2005 Monaco Executive 43PBQ Detroit Series 60
Honda Fit, Odyssey or Cargo trailer in tow.
Windecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fan



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wide open throttle power loss Grumpy Dave Cummins Engines 8 10-29-2017 08:11 PM
Radiator fan runs wide open djhinds Monaco Owner's Forum 4 11-28-2016 07:49 PM
Gas tank size feeding wide open fifth wheel Onan softtailgolf Gulf Stream Owner's Forum 2 04-07-2016 05:05 AM
Chev/GMC towing mirrors wide enough for "wide body" trailers? 2wiresdave Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 7 07-16-2014 11:10 PM
Ready for wide open spaces!!! Literally! Momma Cella New Member Check-In 10 04-03-2014 09:06 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.