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Old 11-19-2018, 05:01 PM   #1
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Guardian plates self install

Recently received two sets of Guardian plates. One flush floor, one raised floor. Both, the drivers side deep slides (if that matters).
Weather is changing fast, and I may only get one set installed this year. Neither slide has floor rot, so one isn't more urgent than the other.
For those whom have self installed both styles, which would you do first? Kinda like the training install .

Cheers... Ben.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:03 PM   #2
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I think the raised floor might have been a tad easier? If that helps. It is a pretty straight forward process.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:18 PM   #3
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Just did my flush floor deep slide this weekend. Have not done a raised floor one yet but likely will chip away at it like you are, no floor rot "yet".

For me, the aft plate on the front slide out was a bear. The Hydraulic ram/slide support was in the way as was the conduit hangar thing. Those two items prevent easy install of the plate (but is possible still) and completely prevented use of the supplied rivet gun on the center row of rivets and the last couple rivets on each end, inboard and outboard. I used a hand riveter for those and it was certainly a work out on my hand!

Will try to upload some pictures.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide View Post
Recently received two sets of Guardian plates. One flush floor, one raised floor. Both, the drivers side deep slides (if that matters).
Weather is changing fast, and I may only get one set installed this year. Neither slide has floor rot, so one isn't more urgent than the other.
For those whom have self installed both styles, which would you do first? Kinda like the training install .

Cheers... Ben.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:20 PM   #4
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Thanks John .

The bedroom slide (RF) will certainly be less work since I won't have to remove the teflon runners.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windecker View Post
The Hydraulic ram/slide support was in the way as was the conduit hangar thing.

Will try to upload some pictures.
Windecker
I don't have my slides open right now, to run out and check, but I seem to recall my 'conduit hangar thing', being close to the middle of the slide.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:40 PM   #6
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Ben-

A friend and I installed the flush-floor GPs first. The flush-floor slide had a small amount of rot at its forward, outboard corner, and I want to get that done first, in case the weather closed in.

[Digression: In 2017, the GP kit came with "standard" 3M 5200. It takes up to seven days to cure. 3M sells a "fast-cure" version that takes 24 hours to cure. If you're trying to get things done during the rainy season, it seems to me that a switch to "fast-cure" would help reduce the chance of water intrusion before cure. End if digression]

The flush-floor slide on our coach has a slide bar, rather than rollers. It took us a while to determine where the slide had to be (in/out) in order to be able to jack it up the maximum amount, so it was easiest to install the plates.

I thought the raised-floor GP install would be a piece of cake, but... First, I broke a roller while trying to lower it for clearance. That required a partial disassembly of the bed frame to get at the roller. Next, it turned out that the GPs were too short, so Chris T produced a new set on very short notice (great customer service as always from Chris!). Next, in the trimming-to-size I left things about a quarter-inch too long, such that the plates contacted the outer angle on the slide, rather than having some "relief." Finally, I apparently did not put enough 3M 5200 on the vertical and horizontal surfaces near the slide corners. The net effect was that I ended up creating a leak pathway from the outside of the coach to the inside- via the GPs- especially the forward one on that slide. This was no fault of the GP design or manufacture, just the installation decisions I made.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that you don't know which will be easier or more difficult!

One of the toughest things in the whole installation was taking a grinder to the slide trim. I have a steady hand, and didn't make a boo-boo, but the thought of making one, and just cutting into something you know you can't replace (it's a one-way mod, for sure), well...

By the way, I solved the problem of keeping the slide seals out of the way by applying blue painters tape to the side of the coach, then using low-tack 3M duct tape between the seals and the blue painter's tape. I worried that if I had used duct tape directly on the coach walls its removal might have taken off paint, or left residue.
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Old 11-19-2018, 05:44 PM   #7
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4200 is the fast cure version of 5200. Both cure better with a little humidity.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captjake1 View Post
4200 is the fast cure version of 5200. Both cure better with a little humidity.
I believe 4200 Fast Cure is a different product than 5200. This chart explains the differences:

https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...alantchart.pdf

Below are 3M's Web pages on the products. Interesting that it appears no "standard cure" 4200 is made (now; if it ever was I don't know).

5200
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3241623&rt=rud

5200 Fast Cure
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...3241048&rt=rud

4200 Fast Cure
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...1170224&rt=rud
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 PM   #9
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Mark, thanks for filling me in on some of the things to watch out for !
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:00 PM   #10
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A few notes about the Guradian plates

I am just adding a few notes to the install in hopes it may help someone. This is not meant to be a 100% how to post. I watched the video on the Talen page and went from there.

After I ground the inside lower extruded bottom edge off and started to finish removing the ends where I could not grind I found the entire extrusion was pretty easy to just remove.
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I carefully extracted the extrusion and just removed it. This does leave a little gap between the end wall and flooring. During installation of the plates I filled that in with the 5200.
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Sort of jumping ahead a little, taped the seal back, fit the plates, taped the top edge, drilled the holes and removed the plates to extract the drillings and debris. In the video they seem to glue, fit, drill and rivet all in one step. I prefer to remove and clean things up first. Maybe they just skipped over that part.
This is my drivers side, forward flush slide, aft plate. The support arm was a bit tough to work around at times. I suppose you could install the plate from inside the coach instead of from outside to help with this interference issue. One would have to be extremely careful if installing from inside though to prevent 5200 getting on carpet and such.
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Sorry this picture rotated, can't figure out why, it's normal in the upload. Anyway, this is just a floor jack, a hickory ax handle and some wood to spread the load on the slide floor. I started with a large piece of wood and gradually installed smaller and smaller pieces to see how big/small of a piece could be used and not stress the floor. Unless your raising it more than you need, you don't need a huge piece to spread the load out. Pretty easy to get 3/4 inch or so lift on the floor to create the gap you need to work.
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Not really shown but I drilled the side holes first and drilled two of them smaller than the rivet holes so a wood screw could be installed and tightened to hold the plate in place while I fit the remaining holes on the side. I pushed the plate pretty hard into place while drilling the holes. Repeated the process on the bottom. I then hand fit all rivets, then removed the plates to clean everything up and remove the filings.
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Difficult to see and its another picture that rotated for some reason but this is the gap between the teflon floor skid and bottom of the slide. In the foreground is the cardboard used to protect the MH from glue and such.
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A little out of sequence... After installing the 5200 which is about as thick as honey so it WILL run and drip but not terribly.
Since the 5200 takes up a little room, the plate is a little tougher to get 100% back in place. I like the snug fit though as I know it is pulling the outside edge in that way. The rivets going into wood is not really the most optimal attachment method but good enough.
The picture here is showing the rivets not wanting to seat 100% due to the glue creating interference, I used a small 1/4 inch deep well socket over the rivet heads and tapped them easily with a hammer to seat them flush.
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I liked a little 5200 coming out of each rivet when inserting them, gives me a warm fuzzy that they are sealed. Again you can see how the socket was used to set the rivets.
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Before installation, I cleaned and roughened the mating surfaces to promote adhesion and sealing of the two plates to the structure.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:13 PM   #11
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Wrap up

Just showing some 5200 around the rivet holes, top and bottom of the side plate before install.
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Same on the plate itself. The video said not to use 5200 on the nose of the plate. Not sure if it was a mistake or not but I used glue there. I just could not bring myself to omit it in what I feel is the highest stressed area.
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More or less finished product front plate minus final clean up and exterior sealing if needed.
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Aft plate cleaned up.
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I found that rear slide support to really be in the way of the rivet gun. I highly recommend having multiple rivet guns available and maybe a second set of hands.

The 5200 stays soft a long time and does drip so be ready to get some on you!
A second tube of 5200 would have been nice. I felt like I had to skimp a little to keep from running out. In reality, I was counting on the 5200 more for sealing than adhesion.

Almost all of the bottom rivets left just a tiny sharp edge of the broken off stem out of the heads. This caught on my cleaning rag and made clean up much harder. On the first plate I ground the stems flush after cleaning, on the second plate I ground the stems smooth using a small disk sander prior to wiping down with a rag. Definitely easier on the second plate to clean up.

The rivets pulled the plates down tight "some" but rivets in wood really don't do a lot in tension but should work OK in shear which is most likely the way they will be loaded. Point is, I would try to have that plate pushed into place with minimal gaps while your pulling the rivets instead of relying on the rivets to pull the plates much.

Again, this is not an in depth how to, this is just sharing a few thoughts of things I noticed having just been through it.

Windecker
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:26 AM   #12
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Terrific job, and nice write-up! This is sure to help others when (and in most cases, not "if") they tackle the task.

I watched and re-watched Chris's video many times and did several trial runs before I started on mine, but it was still a big learning curve with a lot of "...huh, so that's how it's supposed to be.." thoughts as I worked . Best advice I can think of is to take your time, think it thru, and don't get discouraged.

Too bad Monaco didn't see this issue coming when they designed those slide-lips. But then, we'd still find something else to fix .
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:36 AM   #13
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windecker-

On your post #10, you said you were able to pull the lower-edge extrusion completely out. The design on our coach prevented that. I also believe that the GP instructions say not to try removing the extrusion; this may be a general warning, so as not to mess up the folks whose coaches have an extrusion design like ours instead of yours.

I only mention this for other folks who read this thread later. I would have preferred to remove the extrusion, if it could be done and didn't create more problems.

Nice write-up, especially the pictures!
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Old 11-20-2018, 06:57 AM   #14
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I get the idea not all slides are made the exact same.

In my case that extrusion was really just a small piece of U channel and likely not extrusion in reality. It appeared to be just a trim cap for the bottom of the slide wall and nothing more.

I tried cutting the last couple inches with a scraper as shown in the video but the U channel just was sliding. Had I left the two #6 wood screws installed, it may have stayed in place.

Maybe the same with others, not sure but my slide floors just butt into this trim piece and is not sealed in any way inside. Looks to me that Monaco coated the floor ends with black sealant, trimmed the side wall with this u channel, and expected to leave that bottom seam (under the slide) open to drain/breath. I presume they expected the water to run off the side and not wick around under that trim and up into the structure.

The channel had urethane sealant on the outside/top and two small screws to hold it in place, that's it!

My 99 Signature had a completely different slide structure on the bottom and was intended to be 100% sealed all the way around that corner. It had a thick piece of aluminum on the corner that I suspect was structural in some way.

Again, just sharing some information, I not an expert on this!
Windecker

Quote:
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windecker-

On your post #10, you said you were able to pull the lower-edge extrusion completely out. The design on our coach prevented that. I also believe that the GP instructions say not to try removing the extrusion; this may be a general warning, so as not to mess up the folks whose coaches have an extrusion design like ours instead of yours.

I only mention this for other folks who read this thread later. I would have preferred to remove the extrusion, if it could be done and didn't create more problems.

Nice write-up, especially the pictures!
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