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Old 02-11-2019, 07:48 AM   #1
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Hard start question

Greetings,

I'm experiencing hard start problems.
- it is turning over good, but taking as long as 10 to 30 seconds to fire.

1. had some minor leakage of the lift pump. So, I changed the pump. I'm in the process of putting it back together now. I removed the intake manifold to help with access to the pump from up top.
2. while it was out, decided to ops check the grid heater. in the manifold.
3. the wait to start light comes on, but the grid heater is not working? "no heat"
4. the pump appears to working fine. it runs its cycle, and is not leaking.

couldn't sleep last night thinking this through.

I have to work today, but tonight i will pick up the the troubleshooting.
can someone point me in the right direction.

I think the relays are under a black box cover in the rear compartment on the pass side??? i think?

should be simple right? I know, nothing on this damn thing as been simple. the pump took a week to change. "after work hours" we missed a scheduled trip this weekend with the grands.

So, i've been reading. Not to much info on the grid heater?

ECM tells relays to energize. Relays energise and send 12v and a lot of amperage to the grid heater for 15 seconds, right?

1. does anyone have diagram of this circuit or a general explanation of the component location?
2. is the cannon plug "round electrical plug" part of the system? I had minor corrosion in the plug.
3. can the relays be working but not providing enough amperage? are they readily available?
4. are the power leads connected directly to the battery?

thanks again. I do appreciate your help. dale
2001 HR Septor, ISC 330.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:52 AM   #2
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I have a chassis wiring diagram for my 2002 Windsor which shows the grid heater circuit. It shows 6 ga wire powering the grids controlled by relays.



I'd trace the wires to the grid heaters and try and determine if the relays are working.



PM me if you want a copy of the wiring diagram.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:46 AM   #3
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My hard start problems on the C8.3L 300hp Cummins have been related to the Fuel Shutdown Solenoid being misaligned or failing.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:06 PM   #4
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thanks to all. I found the grid heater solenoids. they are located behind the black cover in the last compartment over the battery charger.

It's "not" getting 12v to energize the solenoids when the key is turned to run?

I'm stuck. I PMd Jim for a wiring diagram and i appreciate that. If it is the ecm, does anyone know where that is located? thanks, dale
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:52 PM   #5
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update.

I jumped across the solenoids. the grid heaters are working. I dont think they have been working? they were gunked up. they burnt off after 3 or 4 or 5 second cycles.

I put the intake back on. the motor started right up. so, it must have been the lift pump.

However, i still want the grid heaters working. Next step is to found out if the ecm is sending a signal to the solenoid to energize.

does anyone know where the ecm is located?

thanks, dale
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandec View Post
My hard start problems on the C8.3L 300hp Cummins have been related to the Fuel Shutdown Solenoid being misaligned or failing.
Not on 2001 ISC engine, Yes on the 8.3 up to 1998.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:01 AM   #7
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thanks for all the help. especially jim for the diagram. its is starting and running good without the grid heater working. however, it is 50 degrees here. I'm going to continue on and try to fix the intake heaters. I looked for the ecm for last night. Not sure what it looks like? or where it is? google doesn't help much. almost impossible to trace the wiring harness. I'm going to do a new post with that question. thanks again, dale
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale1 View Post
update.

I jumped across the solenoids. the grid heaters are working. I dont think they have been working? they were gunked up. they burnt off after 3 or 4 or 5 second cycles.

I put the intake back on. the motor started right up. so, it must have been the lift pump.

However, i still want the grid heaters working. Next step is to found out if the ecm is sending a signal to the solenoid to energize.

does anyone know where the ecm is located?

thanks, dale
I am guessing here but the grid heaters my not come on unless the ambient temp is below some predetermined temp.

Bob
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nodine View Post
I am guessing here but the grid heaters my not come on unless the ambient temp is below some predetermined temp.

Bob


Good guessing I think Bob may be on to something .

Ray
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale1 View Post
Greetings,

I'm experiencing hard start problems.
- it is turning over good, but taking as long as 10 to 30 seconds to fire.

1. had some minor leakage of the lift pump. So, I changed the pump. I'm in the process of putting it back together now. I removed the intake manifold to help with access to the pump from up top.
2. while it was out, decided to ops check the grid heater. in the manifold.
3. the wait to start light comes on, but the grid heater is not working? "no heat"
4. the pump appears to working fine. it runs its cycle, and is not leaking.

couldn't sleep last night thinking this through.

I have to work today, but tonight i will pick up the the troubleshooting.
can someone point me in the right direction.

I think the relays are under a black box cover in the rear compartment on the pass side??? i think?

should be simple right? I know, nothing on this damn thing as been simple. the pump took a week to change. "after work hours" we missed a scheduled trip this weekend with the grands.

So, i've been reading. Not to much info on the grid heater?

ECM tells relays to energize. Relays energise and send 12v and a lot of amperage to the grid heater for 15 seconds, right?

1. does anyone have diagram of this circuit or a general explanation of the component location?
2. is the cannon plug "round electrical plug" part of the system? I had minor corrosion in the plug.
3. can the relays be working but not providing enough amperage? are they readily available?
4. are the power leads connected directly to the battery?

thanks again. I do appreciate your help. dale
2001 HR Septor, ISC 330.
Have you checked the fuel inlet elbow to the primary filter? They get stopped up with fuel liner remnants. This vintage had fuel line problems that unnecessarily had many injector pumps replaced. (I think 95-2005) Mine is a 2002 Monaco Windsor 8.3 that had the problem. The fuel line liners disintegrate and stop up that elbow. It is seldom noticed with filter change. I have heard of many that had injector pumps unnecessarily replaced because of something that simple. Mine was almost one of them. The mechanics (including me but I seriously studied it ) do not notice the problem until taking the supply system apart. I took it apart to unnecessarily install a FASS fuel system. Gates does not recommend that particular hose for factory installs anymore. Check the hose number and call or search Gates hose catalog.
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