Hitch Weight

[Coma]

I am trying to figure out my tow options. My preference is to use a covered trailer rather than 4 down.

My MH rear axle is near its max of 20k. MH/hitch is rated for 10k. If I add a trailer the hitch weight will add to that, but ride height will not change because the air suspension will compensate. If I use a load equalization hitch then it will still move some weight to the from axle even though ride height doesn't change. Do I understand that correctly?

Any real difference between the 20k axle and the 23k axle used in later years?

[Robi.1014]

Your question ("If I use a load equalization hitch then it will still move some weight from axle?") caused me to reflect on that mechanical engineering course I took some 45 years ago. So if this sounds shaky, well.....

For general discussion, let's start with a simple situation:
For a car/trailer pairing, we all can "see" that an excessive hitch-weight forces the rear of the car down and the rear axle bears that weight, but also the front of the car goes up removing some weight from the steer axle. Add the equalization hitch and the car stays level so there is almost a 50/50 distribution of the hitch weight onto the car's front & rear axles (as for that 50/50 value, I'm using the "new math" being taught today). If you scrap the equalization hitch in favor of air shocks (to keep the car level), the majority of the hitch weight is borne by the car's rear axle...even tho the car is forced to be level. If driving on a road that causes the vehicle to "porpoise", the front axle can get really light to the point of being dangerous. But your concern is (as it should be) focused on the weight that the rear axle is bearing. So: air-shocks = bad. Equalization hitch = good.

Applying this "lesson" to your Dynasty and if using only the RV air-bag leveling (the "air shocks example on the car): What of "porpoising"? Well, the distance between your front & rear wheels (one "moment arm" [of several] in our "car equation" above), presents a condition of lightening your front-axle-weight only a minimal amount. But, the RV rear axle is indeed bearing all of the hitch weight and then some. = Bad.

So it appears that the argument for hitch equalization still applies: hitch weight can be distributed to the rear and front axles of your RV, albeit not nearly 50/50. But some improvement has been gained by removing some of the weight from the RV rear axle and forcing it to the front axle.

But I have one concern. When I look at my 10K pound hitch and the frame to which it attaches, it seems to be welded-up in such a manner that it would not do well if a heavy hitch weight were applied and an equalization hitch were there also applying a downward force on these welds. My opinion: to get a truly effective distribution of weight promised by an equalization hitch, you might need to add some substantial bracing back there. Oops....that sounds like more weight on the rear axle.

Alternative: Pack your trailer so that hitch-weight is minimized/nominal. Maybe a couple-hundred pounds max.....and let it go a that.

[Land Barge]

How close are you?
Typically a trailer on applies 10-15% of the trailer weight to the rear hitch. Ie what it's being asked to hold up. So on a 10k gvwr trailer only applies (in cowboy math) 1-1.5k to the coach to actually hold up.

Stopping is another matter and takes into consideration the 10k lbs.
For stopping purposes you look to the gross combined weight. That's what the coach is designed to stop/manage down the road.
Somewhat involved set of numbers to consider which simplistically stated not taking into account trailer brakes, inclines etc etc.

There are others, including the above post, who have explained better than I.

[Mr_D]

As to the rear axle: The maximum weight you can legally have on a single rear axle is 20K. Federal Law, although some states allow more.
One manufacturer (may have been Monaco) had to buy back some of their rigs and replace them with tag axle units. Some eastern roads have scales in the road at the toll booth, if you're overweight you can't use the toll road.

[walt2137]

Jim I will comment on the axle only, you should have a Eaton axle (Ratio 478) I called Eaton on that question of whether I had a 20,000 or a 22,000 their answer was I had ether but only the 20,000 was legal. You can get the S/N off of your build sheet and give them a call. If you are now under 20,000 on the rear axle and not planning to cross the scales on the turn pike I think you can easily handle the trailer.

[Coma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robi.1014 Alternative: Pack your trailer so that hitch-weight is minimized/nominal. Maybe a couple-hundred pounds max.....and let it go a that.

The trailer loaded will weigh about 8k so around 800 on the hit as a min. My hitch is part of the engine mount, it looks pretty stout to me. Thank you for the detailed reply, it echoed my thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Land Barge How close are you? Typically a trailer on applies 10-15% of the trailer weight to the rear hitch. Ie what it's being asked to hold up. So on a 10k gvwr trailer only applies (in cowboy math) 1-1.5k to the coach to actually hold up. Stopping is another matter and takes into consideration the 10k lbs. For stopping purposes you look to the gross combined weight. That's what the coach is designed to stop/manage down the road. Somewhat involved set of numbers to consider which simplistically stated not taking into account trailer brakes, inclines etc etc. There are others, including the above post, who have explained better than I.

I will have to have brakes for sure, I'm thinking about the wireless model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walt2137 Jim I will comment on the axle only, you should have a Eaton axle (Ratio 478) I called Eaton on that question of whether I had a 20,000 or a 22,000 their answer was I had ether but only the 20,000 was legal. You can get the S/N off of your build sheet and give them a call. If you are now under 20,000 on the rear axle and not planning to cross the scales on the turn pike I think you can easily handle the trailer.

Thank you! With full fuel and full water I'm at 20400lbs. I have been loading the water to half to stay in limits, with a 100 gallon water tank. So, no water and a distribution hitch might make it. I had a feeling that the axle didn't care if I was a few lbs over, I will give Eaton a call. I rarely go east of OH and no scales to the west on I80. I could unload the car to cross the scales if necessary.

Of course now I see why most of the 40' went to tag axles.

[Cayman09]

Coma,

I had the same problem that you have with an enclosed trailer. I installed the bars and was able to adjust the weight on the rear and the front a lot better. Before the bars, my front end was riding light and I could feel it over bumps. Now the ride is much improved and safer.

I would say that if you do your math properly and get your complete rig (and trailer) weighted, you should find a good compromise within the limits of the coach.

Good luck

[sc3283]

Coma, with electric trailer brakes that work properly...you have NO worries...if the brakes will work when the trailer is towed by a pickup....they will give you no problems if connected properly to your RV.

[Coma]

Thank you for all replies.!!!

Does any one have experience with the Hitch buddy/Tow buddy? Or a dolly hitch?

[sc3283]

Coma, I know several guys use them when towing their enclosed race car trailers. They have had NO issues with them. They do as claimed...take the tongue weight off the hitch and make your enclosed trailer pull like a toad.

This guy is a racer and a manufacturer of these items. he has made them for ages and sold tons. Almost all racers who opt to use these buy this gentlemans. (I do not know the man, i have seen the man at the track and have seen his units on his RVs when he enters and leaves the tracks).

TrailerToad.com

[Cayman09]

Coma,

unless I'm missing something, the dolly hooks up to your hitch and the trailer to the dolly, you end up with two swivels. So it would make back-uping the trailer very interesting....but I might be wrong.

[Coma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc3283 Coma, I know several guys use them when towing their enclosed race car trailers. They have had NO issues with them. They do as claimed...take the tongue weight off the hitch and make your enclosed trailer pull like a toad. This guy is a racer and a manufacturer of these items. he has made them for ages and sold tons. Almost all racers who opt to use these buy this gentlemans. (I do not know the man, i have seen the man at the track and have seen his units on his RVs when he enters and leaves the tracks). TrailerToad.com

They have a nicely priced used one, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cayman09 Coma, unless I'm missing something, the dolly hooks up to your hitch and the trailer to the dolly, you end up with two swivels. So it would make back-uping the trailer very interesting....but I might be wrong.

Heh, I think you're right. This is the option only if the hitch and moving weight in the MH don't work. I've got a bit of Tag axle envy, so I tell my wife that we could get the bath and a half 2 slide for only a few more dollars.

Reality sets in and this would be the the more rea$onable choice.

[rpasetto]

Considering the complexities outlined above you might want to reconsider the "4-down" approach. The weight of a tow bar will add little to the load already on your rear axle.

Consider this especially if your rear axle is very "near its max of 20k". If you're already within 1000#, for example, it gives you only a 200# "margin of error" with the 800# tongue weight of your trailer and vehicle, properly balanced.

Good luck. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

[Coma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto Considering the complexities outlined above you might want to reconsider the "4-down" approach. The weight of a tow bar will add little to the load already on your rear axle. Consider this especially if your rear axle is very "near its max of 20k". If you're already within 1000#, for example, it gives you only a 200# "margin of error" with the 800# tongue weight of your trailer and vehicle, properly balanced. Good luck. Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.

I agree. I hope you had a great Christmas, too.

We have a cottage business that requires some equipment. I find that no matter what, Stuff divided by Space Available=1.25 If we could get a chest freezer into the Traverse.