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Old 01-12-2019, 12:17 PM   #1
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Hydraulic/transmission fluid fix

Over the summer I posted on the Country Coach forum a question about my transmission fluid seeping into my hydraulic system (backwards of what you would expect). Never really got there with an answer so I went in!

The primary issue was that my transmission fluid slowly dropped and hydraulic fluid slowly increased. Not major but not acceptable either. After some great troubleshooting tips from various members and rebuilders alike I determined that there had to be a problem with my "wet drive" installation. The wet drive is just fluid that is pumped from the transmission to the drive splines of the hydraulic pump to prevent the drive splines from wearing out. Country Coaches tended to have this issue in the early and mid 2000's

It appears that Monaco addressed the issue before CC did by adding a oiler system to the drive spline area. My issue appears to be that somehow that oiling system is getting past the hydraulic pump seals and into the hydraulic system. Seems impossible but it happened.

I had to drain about 13 gallons of fluid out of the hydraulic system which was annoying to deal with but had to be done. I did have to cap the PTO drive lube hoses or they would drip a bit. Also, the hole in the PTO drive area that let the hydraulic fluid out of the drive area and back into the transmission (about a 1/8 inch hole) leaked roughly 1.5 gallons of transmission fluid out in 2 days. I could have shoved a wood dowel or something in that hole to prevent leaking or drained the transmission...

Shows Pump installed, looking aft.
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The little black hoses are the lube system for the drive splines located at the base of the pump where it bolts to the red PTO drive adapter. Also lubes the other end of the PTO drive end, so both ends are pressure fed.
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View of the PTO drive, looking forward.
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Pump drive splines, they look GREAT so the lube system works.
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CPC 1047 pump which is still available but special order only and about $1500.00 I was warned that resealing this pump was a gamble because they don't always seal up. However, they also said most of the time the reason they are resealing them is because the owner had a major leak which exhausted the hydraulic system fluid and would score the pump parts. My case was different.
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Pump removed.
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Other side.
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I started by cleaning a small section of the pump housings. I then stamped a 1 and a 2 on them for reassembly to be sure I got them back exactly where they came from.
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Took all the bolts out and snapped pictures along the way to help with reassembly.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:35 PM   #2
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Hyd pump

Pump end pulled off, you can see the brass pressure plate and seals.
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Another view with the pressure plate removed from the pump gears and placed on the end cap.
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Inside, the gears.
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Drive gear removed, pretty good shape really.
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Pulling other end open, removing the brass or bronze (whatever it is) pressure plate off. Shows the inner seals. These seals are for efficiency not external leakage, these prevent internal leakage.
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Another shot.
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This is the drive end seal, it is a bidirectional seal meaning it seals pressure in both directions. Most Garloc type seals only seal in one direction. This seal was my issue. I believe what was going on is that the seal was working in one direction only which was the pressure side of the hydraulic pump. This would seal better and better with increase pressure from the output of the pump. I believe the inlet side (part that faces the wet PTO area) was compromised which would allow the hydraulic pump to actually suck fluid in through the drive end seal from the transmission into the pump then through the system and into the hydraulic reservoir. Or at least that is what I am going with
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Using bronze drive, carefully extracted the seal being careful not to scrape the aluminum housing which could induce a leak.
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Removal of the drive end seal.
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Notice the small amount of corrosion where the seal was sitting since 2004.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:55 PM   #3
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Hyd pump

Using some fine Scotch Brite, cleaned the seal surface carefully. It is aluminum so you don't want to remove a lot of material.
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Nice and clean...
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There is a back up ring and seal molded into the housing for the internal sealing of the pump. I have the seal pulled away showing the back up ring still sort of sitting in there.
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Seal and back up seal, keeper or whatever you want to call it.
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Clean the steel center housing using scotch brite or similar.
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Clean and ready to reassemble.
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The seal kit comes with a new back up piece and new seals but none of them are shaped, they are just straight pieces of seal. I chose to reuse the back up material as it was 100% shaped to the groove and only serves to support the main seal. That was very helpful in being able to force the new length of seal material into the groove and counting on it staying in place long enough to get the friction plate installed which in turn holds them in.
A little grease on the seals, force them in, trim to fit as the main seal is about 1/2 inch longer than needed, hold them in place for a minute or two and then install the friction plate.
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Brass/Bronze friction plate or seal cap in place. It does need to be reinstalled as it came off as there are passages drilled into it for lubrication.
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Grease the gears and reinstall them, no way to install them incorrectly as the pump would not go together if you got them swapped incorrectly. Note the o ring at the base of the pump. This is the hardest part of the reseal. It just sort of sits in the groove and until it is trained, wants to jump out. I tried freezing it and lubing it with thick grease but in the end seemed that just being patient with grease and holding it in place would eventually allow it to stay in place long enough to trust it while assembling the larger components.
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Seal in place. There is a seal like this on both end caps. This seal prevents external leakage or a leak that you would see dripping on the ground. Very important seal!
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:03 PM   #4
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Hyd pump

Gears installed and ready for final assembly.
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Torque to specifications. Very hard bolts and a lot of them. I think the torque was like 500 LBIN each. Torqued in sequence at 1/2 torque, then final torque.
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Of course I had to paint it with high heat paint when done.
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I installed new PTO drive lube hoses while at it. No reason to push the luck on a 15 year old hose.
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Pump reinstalled and ready for servicing.
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View looking forward.
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Bunch of large wrenches needed for this job. Some of the stuff was at my limit of ability torque wise. Also, I had to be methodical of how I reinstalled stuff so I could tighten things in the proper way. Big fittings can be a challenge to work with.
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I took this opportunity to also have a tiny leak in my hydraulic system cooler repaired. This photo is actually of the repair after it was welded and reinstalled. A local radiator shop repaired and pressure tested it for me. I think it was like $75.00 which is a far cry from replacement.
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I added some seal from Trim-Seal to the cooler end caps. This seal rests against the radiator end caps and seals the coolers together better. Not really required but forcing more air through the cooler should mean more efficient cooling. The black rubber seal is pressure sensitive and is actually the seal Monaco used for our baggage doors (or at least on my coach) It is very good material.
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Another angle.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:42 PM   #5
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Hyd pump

Here is the cooler mounted against the radiator, you can see how the Trim-Seal is covering the gap that used to be there. I am not sure why some of these photos rotated during the upload. This picture is rotated 90 degrees. The cooler is mounted vertically.
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I also took some 2.5 inch aluminum stock and mounted it to the cooler to reduce the air gap between the cooler and radiator on the top and bottom of the cooler. Again, I am just closing off an air leak that would otherwise allow cooling air to bypass the hydraulic cooler by going around it. Just not sure this is really needed but
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Bottom of the cooler and new "baffle" that was added.
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Below is sort of jumping ahead to everything being done and serviced. I could not find anyone in town that had the ability to functionally and leak test my resealed pump so I figured I would test it myself. I did not want to road test due to the risk of being stranded somewhere.

On another thread years ago I explained how to test your wax valve. I just duplicated that test and added a shut off valve and pressure gauge to the fan control circuit which regulates how much pressure the cooling fan gets from the pump.
After getting the system all together I started the engine and easily turned the fan up to sort of wear in the pump and purge the air from the system. Once confident I had no leaks, gave the fan more of a work out. Below is a crude video of the test set up.


After being happy with that, I increased engine RPM and ran the pump at about 1/2 speed for 30 minutes or so, then full on for an hour increasing and decreasing engine speed using the idle up function between 100-1600 RPM. Max I tested to was 1900 engine RPM. Boy does that fan howl at that speed! Below is the final test video, tested at 1500 engine RPM and fan full on.


I am not saying everyone should do this or that anyone should do it, however once you get past the size of all this stuff and how much fluid it all takes (IE mess it makes) it really is not that complex.
I have 2000 miles on it now including through the mountains of Tennessee (granted, not huge mountains) and zero leakage, zero heat issues, zero fluid transfer from the transmission now! Life is good again.
Windecker
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #6
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Nice write up and pictures. I hope I never need them!!
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:56 AM   #7
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Where did you get the seal kit? Directly from Danfoss?
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:10 PM   #8
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Thanks, yea, no kidding, nobody wants this to happen!
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Nice write up and pictures. I hope I never need them!!
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:17 PM   #9
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Well I used this thread which was a big help: Hydraulic Pump - Sauer Danfoss CPC 1047

On page three there is a company name listed there who I called and ordered the seal kits from. I ordered 2 just in case! PN 10267 from QCC who owns that pump series now instead of Danfass. His contact info: Gary Manchester, 708-887-6320 and was good to work with. Ordered the mount gasket from a local Cummins dealer as that was the part number number I had, PN 3916042 which is actually a compressor mount gasket number but has the same footprint.
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Where did you get the seal kit? Directly from Danfoss?
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