Kitchen Slide Alignment - Off on one side

[erickgruis]

I have a 1999 Monaco Windsor and found one of my (many) issues with the slideout was the tile flooring under the kitchen (rear end of the slide) had broken up and was catching/restricting the slide from fully closing or opening.

[BobJones]

After much mucking around I think we have come to some conclusions. After working on it for days I finally asked my cousin to come out and take a look. I figured a 3rd party with fresh eyes would help.

Right off the bat he picked off an issue. My referencing off the inside seal of the slide. He said I will never get that sealed up against the wall properly. He felt it was a design defect. There's something wrong given that it's sealed on the bottom half and not on the top.

He then said, besides, it should seal whether the slide is all the way out or not. Point being, if you're parked somewhere in the rain and you can't get the slide out all the way - it should still be sealed - by the outside, weatherstripping seal.

When I put the weather stripping on I did not get the corners correct. His take on it is that that is the entire issue. With respect to the top of the slide being one inch further in then the bottom - same thing - design defect.

I had been laboring under the assumption that the top of the slide should, if anything, be canted away from the unit when the slide is out. For obvious reasons, that the rain water would drain away from the motorhome. But, because there are no slide rails on the top of the slide, it just comes along for the ride. He said it was another design defect that you could do nothing about.

Ultimately, the point being that the issue is water entry, noise entry, and draft. Focusing instead on the outside weather stripping, and making sure it's perfectly sealed, would address the issue. So...forget about whether the inside seal is being compressed around the entire slide, forget about whether the top of the slide is canted in towards the wall. It seems I was focusing on the way it should be designed, not on how it is designed.

[erickgruis]

Did you adjust the rail ends down a little? And/or the roller up a little? That's the only way to adjust the vertical alignment.

Just and FYI, I recently had the entire slide removed from mine and replaced the sub-floor. It was rotted some and sagging in the front and under the kitchen the tile was all busted up and restricting the slide movement.

We also re-engineered the 2 forward rollers using the style that were under the kitchen cabinets. We had also found the slide wall behind the drivers seat was sitting lower than the slide floor due to sheered off bolts. This happened because the original roller adjuster at the front would sit on the front tire when the air was dumped, pushing all the weight up on the bottom of the slide floor.

The subfloor was very warped and sagging where the front rollers were and they just had flanges sitting over the wood. So if the wood isn't flat, those rollers won't sit flat either.

I hope yours doesn't have the issues mine did but I sure chased that slide alignment a lot before I realized I had bigger problems.

My slide now sits WAY more square in the opening and moves in and out like butter.

[BobJones]

I adjusted the rollers up quite a bit but got very little for it other then cracking a tile

The tile floor under the kitchen is in good shape as is the rest of the floor etc. I didn't adjust the height, yet, I'll try that last after everything else is done as it will likely effect how the slide looks when closed.

I'm pretty certain if anyone measured their slide on a similar unit you'd see the same thing. The slide will be in more on the top then on the bottom (tilted towards the motorhome). Design defect, oversight, what have you?

[BobJones]

Just an update. I spent a few more days, on and off, getting the alignment much better. In the end, I'll contradict some of my previous findings. I was able to get the inside seal much more accurate by adjusting the limit screws on the rails. Literally, down to the 1/16th of an inch. Ignoring how far each end of the slide was from the outside wall got me very, very close. But....here's the thing.

If you recall, I mentioned that the kitchen end of the slide would never go out as far as the driver's side. It always felt like rubber when you manually forced it out and would spring back. Yesterday, I found out why.....

The 1.5" drain hose from the kitchen sink broke. More specifically, the ABS pipe it joins up to broke. After boring holes in the wall to gain access to it, it became clear that the hose was kinked, in half, and had been for some time. Also, the metal sleeve it's supposed to ride in was bent out of shape and not directing the hose properly when the slide goes in and out. On top of that, that water hoses were not properly routed.

So now we know why the slide was like rubber at the end of it's travel and why it did not want to go out all the way. It was bound up on that hose, and, looking at that hose, I can see why. It's very heavy duty rubber and would certainly stop the slide from extending all the way.

I'm in the process of repairing it, will install a better and longer hose, and will properly route the water lines etc.

Of interest is this. With the hose currently broken, and moved out of the way, and with my slide aligned to the 1/16 of an inch, the slide now moves in and out almost silently. It's so stinking smooth that it's remarkable. It has never been this way since new. The motor hardly has to work at all. I cannot see it ever shearing off one of the driveshaft pins.

Unfortunately, I still have leaks on the slide when extended. They have changed now that the alignment has changed. Anyway, once I get the water drain hose and other hoses sorted, I will get back to that when opportunity arises. But here's the thing, until then, I can pull the slide in and out at will without fear because it's so smooth nothing is working hard.

Oh, and also, since that water drain hose was kinked, in half, such that it could hardly flow water, all my other sinks now drain properly. Something that has not happened for a long time. My guess is that once it's repaired I'm going to see plumbing that works like a hot damn.

Anyway, progress is being made, on many fronts, but wow, what a ride. Assuming I can nail down the slide out leak(s) it will be much better then new. Period. Just watching the slide going in and out without that drain hose attached is a joy to behold.

[kidz_driver]

Bob,

In looking at your pictures it appears that Monaco changed the slide mechanism from a cog and track to a Power Gear set up from the 1999 to the 2000 model year. Not sure if they changed anything else with it but thought I would pass along a few observations.

On mine the slide tilts slightly outwards at the top. When extending the slide the top edge contacts first and then the bottom continues until the limit is reached. Conversely, on retraction the bottom starts coming in first by about an inch before the top starts following.

The slide is only attached to the chassis at its outer edge to the end of the slide tube mechanism. The inner part floats on the three rollers, the two under the cabinets attached to the bottom of the slide and the one under the sofa attached to the floor.

The slide only pivots on its outer edge and adjustments to tilt can only be made by raising or lowering the rollers. While adjustment of the two cabinet mounted rollers is relatively easy, the roller under the sofa is accessible from outside at the back of the front wheelwell. There are several plastic housings which must be removed to get at it.

Adjustments to the tilt should be made with the slide half way out so that you are not working against the wall.

To adjust mine, I found it easiest to raise the inner edge with a pry bar and shim it up near the rollers with pieces of wood until it had a slight outward tilt (as measured from the top and bottom of the wall). I then adjusted the rollers until they were snug and removed the shims. Cycled the slide in and out to make sure there was nothing binding. Took several adjustments to get the top to fully seal on retracting.

The important thing is to make the adjustments when the slide is partially extended so that there is no interference from the wall.

Dave

[BobJones]

H Dave!

I was aware of the roller adjustments and have adjusted them as well as almost everything else. I was actually at the point where I was debating loosing the 4 large nuts on each slide rail and then manually moving the slide to center it perfectly before tightening them down.

But your post brings me to wonder, did you say your slide is angle away from the unit when it's extended? Mine is canted in by one inch on the top. This annoys me no end but I had come to the conclusion that it's by design.

[96 Wideglide]

Originally Posted by BobJones

He then said, besides, it should seal whether the slide is all the way out or not. Point being, if you're parked somewhere in the rain and you can't get the slide out all the way - it should still be sealed - by the outside, weatherstripping seal.

This is plain wrong!

Slides only fully seal, all the way in, or all the way out!

Between these two positions, all you have is the wipe seals. Myself, if I couldn't put a slide all the way out, I'd leave it all the way in.
Certainly wouldn't want it partially out if there was rain in the forecast, or lots of mosquetos.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

This is plain wrong!

Slides only fully seal, all the way in, or all the way out!

Between these two positions, all you have is the wipe seals. Myself, if I couldn't put a slide all the way out, I'd leave it all the way in.
Certainly wouldn't want it partially out if there was rain in the forecast, or lots of mosquetos.

I understand your point but we were coming at it from a water leak perspective. Ie, if the slide is half-way out, and the seals have integrity, then there should be no leaks. I came to the conclusion that you would have very bad heating though as the inside seal is the one that keeps the heat in.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'd love to get the slide-out situation cased on this thing so I could put it out again.

[96 Wideglide]

Originally Posted by BobJones

I came to the conclusion that you would have very bad heating though as the inside seal is the one that keeps the heat in.

That's right. You have a 'D' shaped seal running around the perimeter of your slide wall, and the same running around the walls, and top trim of your slide room facia, facing out. These are your seals that keep weather / cold air out, and warm air in.

[kidz_driver]

Bob,
In response to your question about the slight outward tilt of my slide, I want to clarify that it appears that way when the slide is partially extended. When fully extended and flush against the wall, I measured 19 ½ “ from the wall to the weather stripping on the outer edge of the slide at all 4 corners of the slide.
When fully extended there is a slight downward slope to the slide roof. Putting a square on it indicated that about a 3/8” drop has been built into the slide ends both top and bottom to provide drainage (ie the ends pieces are parallelograms not rectangles).

I also noted that the welded connection between the slide rail end and the bottom outer edge of the slide had a slight slope (1/4”) front to back built in.

In trying to analyse the slide operation I came to the conclusion that the slide pivots slightly over the front roller under the couch which is 9 ½ inches from the wall. When extending the slide, once it gets over half way out, it cants slightly outwards so that the top inner edge contacts the wall first. The bottom then pushes out a little further to until the sides are flush and the seals are compressed.

On retraction, the opposite occurs. Once the slide is more than half way in, it pivots slightly over the front roller and cants inward so that the top outer edge of the slide contacts the wall first and the bottom is then drawn is until the sides are flush. And the seals compressed.

In looking under my slide around the front roller, there is indentation in the bottom of the slide indicating compression of the wood in the base. I have contemplated adding a “guardian plate” in this area to provide a stronger rolling surface.

In my earlier post I noted that Monaco must have changed the slide mechanism from a cog and slot rail system to the Power Gear system from the 1999 to 2000 model year. On the 1999, the motor and gear box is in the middle with two half shafts out to the cogs at the slide rails connected by trans torque bushings. Adjustment is easily made by partial extending the slide, loosening one of the trans torque bushings and then rotating the half shaft until the front and back are equal.

On the Power Gear System, the drive gear on the drive rail (nearest the motor) appears to fixed to the shaft and any adjustment is made at the idler gear on the idler rail, the slide rail furthest from the slide motor.

Your slide likely got out of alignment and skipped a few teeth when retracting against the plumbing obstruction you found. I think you determined that this is about an inch.

According to Tip Sheet 70 for the Power Gear System, adjustment is made to the toothed gear on the idler rail ( the end of the shaft opposite the motor /gear head). With the slide partially extended, pull the cotter pin, push the idler gear shaft in to disconnect the gear and adjust the slide until front and back are equal. Pull the idler shaft back in to position and reinsert the cotter pin.

Now the hard part, unless Monaco moved the slide rail position between the 1999 and 2000 year model, the front slide rail and the idler gear is only accessible from underneath the back of the front wheel well. It is covered by the same plastic housing as the front roller mechanism.

Power Gear Tip Sheet 82 addresses the vertical alignment of the slide. Unless I am missing something, there does not appear to be any adjustment mechanism for this within the Power Gear System meaning that vertical adjustment can only be made by adjusting the floor rollers. The Tip Sheet specifies the distance from the slide rail to the slide bottom at the wall and outer edge and notes that the distance at the wall can be up to 1/8 inch greater than at the outer edge. Given your observations I would bet that yours is ¼” less.

I would recommend you correct the alignment of the slide first before tackling the vertical alignment /sealing issue.

Dave

[BobJones]

Hi Dave;

Many thanks for such a well-thought reply. It's clear that you took some time on it, and that is appreciated.

I have the power gear system and have adjusted the idler gears on both ends of the slide. I did this manually with a tape measure and then later counted the teeth on both ends. 14 - so my tape measure adjustment was accurate and the slide is synced from left to right.

The most beneficial adjustments I found, at that point, were the stop bolts that stop the slide from going out any further. They are adjustable at both ends of the slide. In the end, I was adjusting those down to the 16th of an inch to get the inside seal as close to perfect as possible. (The seal inside the unit behind the wood frame).

The slide now goes in and out squarely. That is to say, one, it's much easier when moving, and two, both inside ends of the slide hit the wall at the same time when you put it out. It's very clear that it is 1000x better then it was and my father looked at it and was very impressed as he owned the unit since 2002 or so (second owner) and it had never been that smooth.

I would have to say, in that respect, it is now almost ideal. What I determined, with respect to the inner seal, was this. If I put the slide out further by using the stop bolts, the lower half of the inner seal would be overly compressed and the top half of the inner seal would not touch the inside frame. This makes sense because the slide is only moved out by the two rails on the bottom of the slide - there is nothing on the top of the slide to force it in or out. The top merely comes along for the ride.

If you picture it in your head, if the slide is allowed to go out to maximum, then it tilts the top of the slide in. This can be readily seen on the inside seal. If the slide is out too far, then the bottom of the seal is too tight and the top of the seal does not contact. Conversely, if I shorten the distance the slide goes out, then the top of the inner seal is tight and the bottom does not touch. What I'm getting at is vertical alignment. With the stop bolts adjusted properly, then I have nearly perfect vertical alignment and the inner seal is touching most all the way around.

If you can follow me so far, the issue I have now is that the top of the slide out is canted towards the unit. It is usually 'in' by, at best, half an inch and typically one inch when measured off the outside wall to the end of the slide. (as compared to the bottom)

That's about as far as I've gotten, and, to be honest, it's a miracle. I'm still working on the drain hose issue in the kitchen.

But when I think about it, if the top of the slide were canted outward (for water drainage away from the unit) then my guess is that the inside seal would be sealed at the top and get progressively worse as you go down the seal towards the floor.

So my thinking these days is that it needs to be aligned such that the inside seal contacts as much as possible, all the way around the frame, and that if the top of the slide is still canted inwards then it's by design or a design flaw.

Does that make sense?

[RVSSNAKE]

Bob,

I know this is a little older thread, but did you find the leak you said you had?

[BobJones]

Yes, and no. I haven't had a chance to come back to it so I've kept the slide in during the wet weather. It's only recently that I've had it out.

It's looking like the new seal I put in is causing the majority of the problem (incorrect install on my part) but it does have a leak on the inside but if the seal was proper it is likely no water would get to it.

I'm hoping to come back to it soon as the weather is better and it's getting warmer up here (Canada) as that makes it easier to work with the seal (more pliable).

So that's where it stands so far.