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Old 07-06-2009, 02:57 PM   #1
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Lippert Hydraulic Pump Issues

I have an 09 Monarch with auto leveling hydraulic jacks and a super slide. Apparently a seal allowed fluid to enter and ruin the motor that runs the pump to operate the jacks and slide. Lippert recommends replacing the whole system. Easy for them to say since they will not honor the warranty. The unit costs $1800 so the replacement cost is going to hurt.

I am trying to trouble shoot the system to see if I can repair vs replace. I think it was faulty when we bought it, but I am not certain. When the jacks are retracted the retraction is abrupt. As soon as I hit the retract button the motorhome literally falls off the jacks. Other motorhomes I have owned the jacks retract slowly. I accepted it as normal since it was that way when we bought it and thought it was designed to prevent damage to the jacks if the parking brake was released before the jacks were retracted.

If anyone has this system was my system operating normally? Has anyone else had a similar problem? I am hoping the sudden release of hydraulic fluid was abnormal and that the problem can be isolated to a specific portion of the pump. I do not feel comfortable rebuilding the motor without fixing the pump problem because it could happen again.

Thanks. Randy
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:06 AM   #2
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Randy- I don't know that brand hydraulic system specifically. HWH's retract is gravity only, it opens the n.c. solenoid valves to allow fluid to be pushed back by coaches weight & springs on the leveller legs. The action is a little abrupt, but not shocking. Also, HWH has a delay for front vs. back (or vice versa, don't recall) so all 4 jacks don't fall @ once.

IIWY, I'd consider firing up engine & airing up the bags before tripping leveler retract if the crash is so abrupt.
Otherwise, good luck w/the fix.
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Old 07-07-2009, 11:45 AM   #3
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Thanks Mike,

I sent pictures of the pump to Lippert and asked them to identify who manufactured the pump. Hopefully, they can identify it and determine whether the abrupt retraction is normal or possibly the reason for the seal failure that ruined the motor. The more information that I get the more convinced I am that the pump was not operating properly from day one. No sense going through the expense of replacing the motor and pump without more information.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:55 PM   #4
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I have the same jacks and slide pump. During my own inspection I found the tank was 3 qts low so make sure it full when the jacks are in and the side is in.

I manually level front first to avoid/minimize the jerky motion. I lube the jacks with silicone spray to avoid the bang noise and lessen the impact of the retraction so the save the windshield.

check the mounting of the unit, is the motor supported ? this may promote the leakage.
Reviewing the online info lippert posted ,I think the retrac function it managed by solenoid poping open a valve thus the hard drop function.

There are many posts on the jerky motion of jacks . use the search function
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Old 07-10-2009, 08:36 AM   #5
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gg,

Thanks for the response. The jerky motion on auto leveling does not concern me as much as the instantaneous retraction. Approximately how long does it take for your system to bring the front of the coach off the jacks when the retract button is released?

Lippert thinks I may have air in the lines. The retraction of the jacks should be more orderly than an immediate bounce.

Thanks.

Randy
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Old 07-11-2009, 12:12 PM   #6
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Time to retract the jacks-, Never timed it but I think under 30 sec , with engine on and good batt voltage at 70 deg temp. I always check if they retracted . I found one time a rear jack 1/2 inch down and had to engage the retract button again.



Is your fluid tank is full? Use Dextron 3 ATF then cycle the jacks and slide 3 times that should remove air in system.

Motor dead? check the motor leads and apply 12 volts to see if it spins.
How do you know the fluid damage the motor? With all fittings and hose connections at the pump/motor/valve asm you need to be sure to find the leak.
Please post your coach model.

Typical 12 volt DC motors have carbon type brushes which oil will damage.
the commutator / brush would need to be cleaned. elect motor repair shop could do this. You have little to loose if you have to spend $1000.00 plus for a new one.

Lippert has a web site with a good manual www.lci1.com or 866-524-7821. The motor design appears to be repairable.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:01 PM   #7
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Lippert will never tell you the name of the motor mfr. However it might have a label somewhere. I guess Lippert was stung heavily by Monaco. When my step motor gave up they told me it had a 2 year warranty ( or 3??) but I would have to get Monaco to warranty the part !! I bet your hydraulic pump is a common off the shelf part. Are you saying that it is still working ?? How do you know the seals are gone?? Is it leaking? Does the slide still work? If you are not handy try to find a good hydraulic shop to troubleshoot your system..
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Old 07-12-2009, 07:49 AM   #8
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I tried to hot wire the motor and it did not spin. When I took off the plug to manually close the slide and raise the jacks oil was leaking from the motor so I assumed it was a seal.

I sent Lippert pics of the pump and motor along with numbers off both. Lippert reps are very pleasant to talk to but it has been frustrating to me that they will not identify the manufacturer.

I never timed the jacks to the stored position in the retraction process. The time from initial release to coming off the jack pad is less than .5 seconds. Lippert also gave me a procedure to get the air out of the system which doesn't do me any good since the motor is dead.

Thanks for the replies. I will use the information when I take it in next week for repair. Hopefully, they will not be as quick as Lippert in suggesting a completely new pump and motor. If it is as simple as air in the system, the motor should be able to be rebuilt at a fraction of the cost.
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Old 07-12-2009, 10:34 PM   #9
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Randy - we also have an 09 Monarch (end of the 08 run - VIN number shows 09) and our HWH jacks also fall with a bang when we press the retract button. We've also never experienced quite that violent a fall on other rigs but our dealer said it's normal for the Monarchs. Maybe that's compared to the airbag-suspension Monacos but we've only had other gas motorhomes without airbags. We've been using our Monarch for a full year now and other than giving up on auto-leveling we're happy with the leveling system. We just level manually - the auto-level would routinely raise the coach too high and was alarmingly jerky . We can level manually just as quickly and accurately.

Based on these posts we'll check our fluid levels. It's also probably time for us to lube the four jacks with silicone spray again.

Good luck with your motor. I'm sorry to hear the manufacturer isnt' willing to warranty their own jack system! You might want to send a politely worded letter insisting they pay for your troubleshooting - it's not your problem that they might not have been paid by the Old Monaco.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:01 AM   #10
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Bruce,

Thanks for sharing. You are the first person that I have talked to that says the abrupt fall is normal. Lippert doesn't think it is normal and may have air in the system. I will let the technicians at the repair shop work that out with Lippert.

I will never buy another brand new motorhome based on this experience. I was hesitant to buy this one because I did not want to be bothered by the problems new coaches are known for even if covered under warranty. Quality controlling manufacturer systems at new owner expense is frustrating.

Thanks again. If I learn any useful information from the technicians doing the repair I will pass it on.

Randy
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:42 PM   #11
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Randy,
I have an '09 Holoday Rambler Endeavor with the 3 point LCI (Lippert) Jack and slide hydraulics like yours.

The front jack slammed down the other day (had not done this before). We think the seal between the electric motor and the pump was blown and that allowed oil to enter the motor. The ekectric in the motor caused the oil to heat to the point of producing lots of smoke and if I had continued with the switch, I'm sure it would have combusted. There is oil weeping from the end of the motor also.

As with you, Lippert was polite but firm, no warranty. They would only sell me a complete unit manifold and all. Sooo, I will remove the motor myself, take it to an electric shop for repair and reseal it to the pump.

Two things....I would not continue to use the pump with a known infiltration of oil into the electric motor due to the fire hazard, and
number two, it'll be a cold day in #### when I own anything made by Lippert again.

Hope I was some help.
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:00 AM   #12
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Repair

Ron,

I received a call this week from the repair shop. They repaired a gasket on the pump. Repair was not possible for the motor and have ordered a new one.

I hear you loud and clear on Lippert. I am also disappointed about the new coach company not establishing a good will policy on 09 Monaco warranties.

Good luck,

Randy
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Old 08-29-2009, 03:23 PM   #13
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I have the same unit and had the exact issue you are having. My problem is I did not realize the unit was leaking into the motor. I thougt it was just dirty. When mine died I had the side slide out and spent a couple hours trying to get it back in manually. Anyway, they replaced the whole unit and it is good for now. And for reference, mine drops off the jacks pretty hard as well. Been that way since new.

You will need to reset your leveling station when you replace the pump. The techs that replaced mine did not know what was wrong with the unit when they replaced the pump. I did a search on the forums, bam....found the reset procedure and fixed it right up.

Good luck.
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Old 08-29-2009, 08:13 PM   #14
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coachmanrvr,

Can you expand on your repair? A new complete Lippert unit? under warr or your cost. Did the repair tech root cause the failure?

Thanks gg
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