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03-01-2014, 10:58 AM
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#1
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Retired Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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Little help please-Cummins
Turn on the key, dash warning lights illuminate momentarily then I hear a few clicks and everything goes dead. No low air tone, no MAINT light....nothing. Assuming the worst (always happens just before a long trip), I did the normal batt voltage check, etc etc. Finally decided to pull the clear cover from the engine compartment relay panel. After cleaning the crud (mouse head, dirt and some unknown substances) out of the box, I gently tapped each solenoid. After that, the engine started normally. My question is which of these is the infamous salesman-switch solenoid and could it cause these symptoms?
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03-01-2014, 01:14 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 410
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Salesman switch will NOT have an effect on starting the engine. It just turns off lights, etc.
__________________
Pat and Judy, Molly and Emma
2000 Monaco Dynasty-2007 Lexus GX470
Winter S/W Florida....Summer Eastern Tennessee
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03-01-2014, 01:19 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,267
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Not sure about Monaco but on Newmar the salesman switch acts as a disconnect, for the house batteries only; not the engine start ( chassis); and as such should not have caused your problem. Checking connections at the batteries and grounds on the frame , engine and dash, check for any voltage drop as you go, down the daisy chain from the battery to the dash.
I see Pat , types faster than I do.
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99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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03-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Varies Depending on The Weather
Posts: 8,517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonNBama
My question is which of these is the infamous salesman-switch solenoid and could it cause these symptoms?
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If I was to take a guess I would say the bottom one BUT if you notice in your photos that the Purple wire is jumppered from one solenoid to the other one. That purple wire I believe is the control wire which activates the solenoid(s). So I am not sure about exactly what you have there.
Therefore, here is how you can easily determine which one is the Battery Cut-Off Solenoid.
Have one person by the entry way turning the Battery Cut-Off Switch on and then off. The other person will be observing and listening to each of the solenoids in your photo. You will quickly know which one it is when you here it engage.
You can also verify what you learn by tracing the cables on the solenoid making sure they are connected to the House Bank and not the Chassis Bank.
You should also have a Battery Isolator Solenoid which will have one cable coming from the House Bank and the other cable coming from your Chassis Bank. That solenoid is used for two things. One is to use it in an emergency to start your engine when the Chassis Bank is low by using the Aux Start Switch on your dash. Second, that same solenoid is used to keep the Chassis Battery Bank charged when on shore power or the House Battery Bank charged when driving. Usually there is some additional devices in the circuit like an IRD or a BIRD control relay that contains the logic to trigger the Battery Isolator Solenoid.
Dr4Film ----- Richard
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03-01-2014, 02:07 PM
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#5
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Retired Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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Thanks for the input guys. Now I am really skeert! I guess I need to get out my VooDoo spells book and hope for the best. Leaving first thing tomorrow, I hope.
Maybe I can find a spray can of Gremlin-B-Gone and apply to the electrical system.
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03-01-2014, 03:33 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
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Normally if you turn on the ignition switch and get lights then try and start and loose everything is an indication of a corroded or loose battery cable. It can work on low amperage but not on high amperage draw. I would get a battery post brush and pull off both the pos and neg cables and clean contact areas until bright. Also check the other ends of the cables also. You can't just look at cables and tell if they are good and clean.
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
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03-01-2014, 04:45 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Saint Leonard,MD
Posts: 750
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Sounds like to me an intermittent ignition (IGN) relay or ignition switch if it is not the cables. Locate the ignition relay and test when and if the problem reoccurs. If it is missing the activation voltage (small terminals) then that will point to ignition switch. If the activation voltage is present but there is not a short between large terminals bang on the relay and see if that causes the relay to activate. Then replace relay.
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2005 Safari Panther Diamond IV Cat C13
2013 Avalanche Toad
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03-01-2014, 06:18 PM
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#8
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Retired Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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Mike, the dash went blank without turning the key to the start position. I think DtBt may have it pegged. I will have to figure out where that ignition relay is located, but I suspect it is in the 12V box in front of the driver side wheel. I could hear the clicking sound from that general area.
Good trouble shooting tips. Thanks.
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03-01-2014, 06:52 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
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Sorry missed that it went dark before to turn the key to start
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
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03-01-2014, 07:06 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: B.C.
Posts: 4,638
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If you found a mouse head I would check for chewed wires!
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Dennis & Marcie & Captain Hook The Jack Russell,aka PUP, 2006 Itasca 29R 2017 Equinox toad. RVM59
We came, we went, nothing broken, nothing bent!
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03-03-2014, 01:46 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Canter
Normally if you turn on the ignition switch and get lights then try and start and loose everything is an indication of a corroded or loose battery cable. It can work on low amperage but not on high amperage draw. I would get a battery post brush and pull off both the pos and neg cables and clean contact areas until bright. Also check the other ends of the cables also. You can't just look at cables and tell if they are good and clean.
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Do this, always go back to ground first with electrical issues. Especially on a motorhome or trailer.
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03-03-2014, 08:03 AM
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#12
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Retired Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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The trouble-shooting has gotten so diverse that I am at a loss for words to provide a full description, however, I "think" (hope?) that my problem has been eliminated. The short version is thus: about 6-months ago, i wired up some LED strip lighting for the fold-out step. Tapped a fuse in the 12V cabinet (below driver side window) and tapped a ground in a solenoid terminal in same enclosure. Everything worked fine. Did several trips in the coach with no problems. Couple of weeks ago, I added a small LED stick-on as lighting inside that same enclosure, accessing the same +12V and ground as the step lighting was utilizing.
After discovering the no-start issue (with key on, dash and air pressure alarm would flash/ping about every 5-8 seconds then go dark) I started back tracking and rethinking every thing I had done since the systems operated properly. When I removed the LED ground wire from the solenoid terminal, all light status and alarms returned to "normal". Self-inflicted wound but still unable to figure out what was happening on an electron-scale of things. I live with the fear that the "normal state" returning at the instant I removed that wire was just a cruel hoax by destiny to lure me into a state of complacency and will rear up to bite my butt at the most inopportune time!
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03-03-2014, 08:08 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,385
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Are you sure the terminal you hooked it to on the solenoid was really a ground ?
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Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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03-03-2014, 08:08 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,489
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If you found a mouse head where the heck is the rest of the mouse?
__________________
Mark Anderson - FMCA 351514 - NRVIA Certified Level 2 Inspector
Louisville, KY
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH
2006 Jeep Commander
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