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Old 08-09-2018, 02:03 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by moisheh View Post
The Cummins ecm is on the engine. The Allison and any others may be in one of your bays under the ceiling.
Those comm falures are hard to correct. Sometimes it is the Deutsch connectors. These are small tringlaar shaped connectors that connect all the computers as well as senders and other components. Very small wires. Often the connectors are corroded or just not clean. This is all part of the J xxxx comunication system . Sorry I forget the number . You will find many of the connectors along the upper right frame rail starting in the engine bay. Your battery terminal's have to be shiney clean.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:15 PM   #16
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Thanks for the additional feedback guys. I am latching on to all the things you are presenting.

Here is today's activity. Given the hard failure I now have, I went through all the heavy wiring in the back of the coach as well as the Rear Run Bay (RRB), i.e. relays, fuses and connectors. To test continuity and connection quality, while I cannot engage the starter with the key, I can jumper the start relay in the RRB and trigger the starter solenoid. This means the 4/0 feed from the batteries to the starter is good and the matching 4/0 feed to the RRB is good as well. Now I need to trace back the start signal from the RRB to the dash ignition circuits and see where I am dropping the start signal. I also have a code reader for Cummins coming tomorrow so I can read out the engine ECM.

I have to admit that I am seriously panicked at the thought of having to go through those connectors up in the frame rails if it turns out i have to. 12 years of dirt and road wash combined with wiring in shrouds and zip tied in bundles not to mention wrapped tight in electrical tape will make that a very unpleasant task.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:45 AM   #17
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Thanks for the additional feedback guys. I am latching on to all the things you are presenting.

Here is today's activity. Given the hard failure I now have, I went through all the heavy wiring in the back of the coach as well as the Rear Run Bay (RRB), i.e. relays, fuses and connectors. To test continuity and connection quality, while I cannot engage the starter with the key, I can jumper the start relay in the RRB and trigger the starter solenoid. This means the 4/0 feed from the batteries to the starter is good and the matching 4/0 feed to the RRB is good as well. Now I need to trace back the start signal from the RRB to the dash ignition circuits and see where I am dropping the start signal. I also have a code reader for Cummins coming tomorrow so I can read out the engine ECM.

I have to admit that I am seriously panicked at the thought of having to go through those connectors up in the frame rails if it turns out i have to. 12 years of dirt and road wash combined with wiring in shrouds and zip tied in bundles not to mention wrapped tight in electrical tape will make that a very unpleasant task.
Probably not what you want to hear now that you have torn into everything, but The ATC lamp and associated ABS lamp will sometimes go on and off due to plugged fuel filters. That may sound strange but it is a fact. The first thing any diesel motorhome owner should do when power problems occur is change the fuel filters. Even if they are not very old today's Bio Fuel can cause cud to break loose and plug the filters.

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Old 08-10-2018, 07:13 AM   #18
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Probably not what you want to hear now that you have torn into everything, but The ATC lamp and associated ABS lamp will sometimes go on and off due to plugged fuel filters. That may sound strange but it is a fact. The first thing any diesel motorhome owner should do when power problems occur is change the fuel filters. Even if they are not very old today's Bio Fuel can cause cud to break loose and plug the filters.

Bob
One owner with similar problems found a rusty fuse in the rear run bay. Cleaned up the fuse holder and installed a new fuse. All was back to normal.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:31 PM   #19
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One owner with similar problems found a rusty fuse in the rear run bay. Cleaned up the fuse holder and installed a new fuse. All was back to normal.
The com protocol is J1939. Used in most hd trucks that are diesel as well as most DP,s. The expert on this subject wasJason at Monaco. He no longer works there. Although a Freightliner shop can work on these systems you will be paying about $135 an hour for the tech to learn your system. You could eat up $3000 and still have that problem. The techs are used to working on class 8 trucks where the wiring is short an easy to get at. Is understand that the Cummins facility that used to be across from Monaco has someone that is familiar with motorhome systems .
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:48 PM   #20
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The com protocol is J1939. Used in most hd trucks that are diesel as well as most DP,s. The expert on this subject wasJason at Monaco. He no longer works there. Although a Freightliner shop can work on these systems you will be paying about $135 an hour for the tech to learn your system. You could eat up $3000 and still have that problem. The techs are used to working on class 8 trucks where the wiring is short an easy to get at. Is understand that the Cummins facility that used to be across from Monaco has someone that is familiar with motorhome systems .
You are correct on the J1939 and I ran codes yesterday with a heavy truck scanner capable of reading this protocol. Unfortunately it was only able to tell me that i had a communication error or communication failure, meaning it couldn't read any codes. Same with the transmission, unable to read. A corroded, loose or seperated connector is still the most likely culprit.

I also wholeheartedly agree with you regarding Freightliner or equivalent. I would be okay with several shops in Oregon where there is good expertise with motorhome electrical systems but I am totally dead right now so a tow to the local Freightliner is my only option .... or, I find and fix this problem myself. And that is what I intend to do until I am totally defeated.

I have spent most all morning going over every one of 235 schematics published for the 2006 Dynasty, but which covers most of the Imperial as well. None were published specific for the Imperial. I have traced every relevant wire in both run bays as well as gone out and tested numerous circuits for continuity and signal. This afternoons mission is to get access to that engine ECM connector above the starter motor. Sounds easy but I tried yesterday from the bedroom access plate and underneath, but all I got was a face full of dirt. To much crap in the way, i.e. wires, starter, fuel filter, injector plumbing, etc.

Another issue that actually has me totally stumped is where is the 10 amp fused power feed to the Allison that is supposed to be installed battery direct. I have seen it on my previous coaches connected to the chassis battery positive post, but on this Imperial it is nowhere to be found and there is no schematic showing it. The Allison Diagnostics Manual says to check it for code failure 35-00 (power interruption), which I retrieved just before I lost all power to the Allison control pad. The fuse probably blew that I am looking for. Unfortunately there are no schematics I have covering the engine and transmission ECM, TCM/ECU, VIM and their respective wiring. If anyone has a clue on this 12V source for the tranny, or has the schematics I need that they could share, I would love to hear from you.
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Old 08-11-2018, 01:23 PM   #21
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Take the cover off the VIM and check the fuses inside.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:57 PM   #22
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Take the cover off the VIM and check the fuses inside.
Mike, thank you. This is very helpful.

By any chance is there a diagram for code 35 XX?
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:32 PM   #23
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I have Section 5 of the troubleshooting manual (its 711KB. If you want it send me a PM with your e-mail address).

There is only one page on code 35-xx.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:03 PM   #24
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I have Section 5 of the troubleshooting manual (its 711KB. If you want it send me a PM with your e-mail address).

There is only one page on code 35-xx.
PM is sent. Thanks Mike.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:27 PM   #25
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You are correct on the J1939 and I ran codes yesterday with a heavy truck scanner capable of reading this protocol. Unfortunately it was only able to tell me that i had a communication error or communication failure, meaning it couldn't read any codes. Same with the transmission, unable to read. A corroded, loose or seperated connector is still the most likely culprit.

I also wholeheartedly agree with you regarding Freightliner or equivalent. I would be okay with several shops in Oregon where there is good expertise with motorhome electrical systems but I am totally dead right now so a tow to the local Freightliner is my only option .... or, I find and fix this problem myself. And that is what I intend to do until I am totally defeated.

I have spent most all morning going over every one of 235 schematics published for the 2006 Dynasty, but which covers most of the Imperial as well. None were published specific for the Imperial. I have traced every relevant wire in both run bays as well as gone out and tested numerous circuits for continuity and signal. This afternoons mission is to get access to that engine ECM connector above the starter motor. Sounds easy but I tried yesterday from the bedroom access plate and underneath, but all I got was a face full of dirt. To much crap in the way, i.e. wires, starter, fuel filter, injector plumbing, etc.

Another issue that actually has me totally stumped is where is the 10 amp fused power feed to the Allison that is supposed to be installed battery direct. I have seen it on my previous coaches connected to the chassis battery positive post, but on this Imperial it is nowhere to be found and there is no schematic showing it. The Allison Diagnostics Manual says to check it for code failure 35-00 (power interruption), which I retrieved just before I lost all power to the Allison control pad. The fuse probably blew that I am looking for. Unfortunately there are no schematics I have covering the engine and transmission ECM, TCM/ECU, VIM and their respective wiring. If anyone has a clue on this 12V source for the tranny, or has the schematics I need that they could share, I would love to hear from you.
I would do the following. Drop the ceiling in the bay that has all the wires going into the upper area. Remove all the computer connector s one at a time and re seat. Look for any if those Deutsch connectors and do the same. The wires are very small. Maybe 20 gauge . Next open up the rear run bay and look for any corrosion. Check any ecmfuses.. now you need to find all the ground connections on the frame Remove the cable, clean both ends of the cable terminal's. They should shine. There are a bunch of these. If your problem is not cured you have to find all the Deutsch connectors along the frame from the rear run bay going forward. Some are in the looms covered with tape. Again unplug but spray with contact cleaner and reseat. I am not familiar with your model but some Monacos have a problem with the wiring from the drivers armrest/shifter area. On those models I think they hand wired from that area to the dash readout. I have read of water getting into that armrest and causing problems. If your FL dealer doesn't have an electrical specialist or does not workmuch on MH's go elsewhere. You should cross post your problem in the Cummins forum on IRV. There was a fellow there that works on busses and he might have better ideas. Maybe the boys at Elite know of ashop close to where you live. Do you have road service? Ask one of the truck lines if they know of a good mobile mechanic. Hope this helps. Some googling with any codes or messages might get you something. I assume you tried disconnecting all power including solar and then reconne ting. Did you clean all your battery terminals.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:56 PM   #26
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I would do the following. Drop the ceiling in the bay that has all the wires going into the upper area. Remove all the computer connector s one at a time and re seat. Look for any if those Deutsch connectors and do the same. The wires are very small. Maybe 20 gauge . Next open up the rear run bay and look for any corrosion. Check any ecmfuses.. now you need to find all the ground connections on the frame Remove the cable, clean both ends of the cable terminal's. They should shine. There are a bunch of these. If your problem is not cured you have to find all the Deutsch connectors along the frame from the rear run bay going forward. Some are in the looms covered with tape. Again unplug but spray with contact cleaner and reseat. I am not familiar with your model but some Monacos have a problem with the wiring from the drivers armrest/shifter area. On those models I think they hand wired from that area to the dash readout. I have read of water getting into that armrest and causing problems. If your FL dealer doesn't have an electrical specialist or does not workmuch on MH's go elsewhere. You should cross post your problem in the Cummins forum on IRV. There was a fellow there that works on busses and he might have better ideas. Maybe the boys at Elite know of ashop close to where you live. Do you have road service? Ask one of the truck lines if they know of a good mobile mechanic. Hope this helps. Some googling with any codes or messages might get you something. I assume you tried disconnecting all power including solar and then reconne ting. Did you clean all your battery terminals.
Some good addition things for me to focus on. Some I have done already like the run bays and the heavy cabling, and the rest I will concentrate on going forward. Hopefully the rain will end tonight and I can get back to this tomorrow. My first thing will be to trace 12v to the VIM and on thru the ECU to the Shift Selector. Those fuses in the VIM are definitely on my radar.

Thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts Mike, and definitely for the troubleshooting manual.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:05 PM   #27
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Hi. I did some googling. That 3500 code is indeed power interruption. One website said to clean all the grounds. Another said to check the tranny fuse at the battery. You already tried that but nofuse was present. Did you lookinthe rear run bay? Tranny fuse might be there. It might not be marked as tranny. Has to be a wire that goes from the vim to a power souce
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:05 PM   #28
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Hi. I did some googling. That 3500 code is indeed power interruption. One website said to clean all the grounds. Another said to check the tranny fuse at the battery. You already tried that but nofuse was present. Did you lookinthe rear run bay? Tranny fuse might be there. It might not be marked as tranny. Has to be a wire that goes from the vim to a power souce
There is no tranny power feed wire directly to the battery banks, either one. I went through the run bays (both) in great detail and no feed there. The Code 35-XX page in the manual you sent me indicates the feed may be inside the VIM, probably from a generic source rather than battery direct. I will know the answer to this tomorrow and will post.
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