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Old 06-20-2018, 05:41 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by cruzbill View Post
And Monaco knew they had a problem with the slide floors; Our Beaver has a black 'drip rail' about 8" above the side/floor seam, the only purpose of this trim has to be to deflect water down the trim and away from the seam.....Now if they would have just wrapped the wall around the corner......
Could you post a pic of this?
I don't recall seeing this on my 2005 Patriot.
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:07 AM   #58
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We have a 2008 Monaco. We have had very few issues. The only major one was the IOTA 50R box. That had to be replaced but there is a recall on this box. We purchased a new box, different kind, and replaced it ourselves. Our unit has shown a stuck relay but with several IRV2 members help, that is now fixed. Thus far no other issues.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:30 AM   #59
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Never though I'd replace my 04 Dynasty after 14 years of very little problems and always said I'd replace with the same or possibly a 06 EXE with the Detroit engine. Our snowbird park has a stupid 10 year rule...once in it can be 20+ years old. A friend wanted my Dynasty so I started looking for a big 08 Monaco...found a "new ride" as it has a 06 Cummin ISX engine and I just added the "Ugly Fix" which stops the EGR making it a 02 engine. Starting in 07, engines had DPF and starting in 2010 they use DEF fluid on top of DPF. Monaco bought up a bunch of 06 engines and I've even seen a 06 engine in a 09 Monaco.

Other than the multiplex system, most other systems are much the same as the 04 Dynasty 42. Fortunately the learning curve is not that bad and many of my spare parts are the same. At 45' it barely fits in my MH bay...can't walk around either end, but it's at home.
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Old 06-20-2018, 08:42 AM   #60
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Never though I'd replace my 04 Dynasty after 14 years of very little problems and always said I'd replace with the same or possibly a 06 EXE with the Detroit engine. Our snowbird park has a stupid 10 year rule...once in it can be 20+ years old. A friend wanted my Dynasty so I started looking for a big 08 Monaco...found a "new ride" as it has a 06 Cummin ISX engine and I just added the "Ugly Fix" which stops the EGR making it a 02 engine. Starting in 07, engines had DPF and starting in 2010 they use DEF fluid on top of DPF.

Other than the multiplex system, most other systems are much the same as the 04 Dynasty 42. Fortunately the learning curve is not that bad and many of my spare parts are the same. At 45' it barely fits in my MH bay...can't walk around either end, but it's at home.
Nice. I can't believe you got rid of your Dynasty. Nice upgrade though.

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Old 06-20-2018, 11:32 AM   #61
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This thread seems to align with something we were told recently.

We are looking at both Motorhomes and 5th wheels for possible full time after retiring and selling our house. Recently at a dealer, the salesman told us the best MH we could possibly get is a 2001 - 2006 Monaco and partially gut it and upgrade it with some of the modern conveniences. He said it would be much cheaper and we would end up with a way better Rig than buying any other brand that is maybe 4-5 years old. He said if he had a couple of hundred thousand to work with that is what he would do without question. (He whispered this as that dealership does not even carry Monaco)

Since then two other people independently made the same suggestion.

We would want one in the 40 - 45' range. Bath and a half. Capable of pulling a 10,000 - 15,000 pound trailer anywhere. Seems like any other wants could be addressed with money.

I would like to have a Detroit Series 60 just for nostalgic reasons (my Dad spent much of his career helping design and improve that engine). However that is not as important as quality.

So here are my questions:

1. Do you agree with Mr. Salesman?

2. Why Monaco specifically - he said that was the absolute best option for buying and upgrading. Why is that? What makes Monaco better than other options (Newhall for example?).

3. If you agree - suggestions for models to look at?

4. What should we watch out for if we go this way (lost of that is covered above - any added issues?)

5. I was convinced Spartan frames are the best for durability and ride both. True? What frame did Monaco use?

5. Are there any upgrades that are not doable that you know of?

Our wish list would include: Aquahot, double paned windows, 3" walls with real insulation; heated basement/tanks; 100 gallons plus fresh and grey water, solar panels; 10k (or larger) generator); king or queen size walk around bed; reasonable ground clearance; 3 strong ac units; No jackknife sofa - I want a straight sofa that is long enough to lay down on; One piece possibly tiled sizable shower (especially height). Ceramic, flush toilets (not plug in a hole type); incredibly wonderful driver and passenger seats that swivel and become part of te living area, laundry; not critical, but a table that cna be expanded to seat four or six would be awesome pass through large storage section int he basement; side radiator that is reasonably easy to access; water filter system; cabinetry and furniture that does not scream you are in a camper; lots of weigh capability. Not sure about a dishwasher - I dislike the Fisher and Payklel dish drawers but maybe if there is a different kind that actually works and does not break constantly. Also we woudl want deep kitchen sink(s), many units have absurd shallow ones. From what I have seen, we would likely replace all the cabinet knobs and handles, faucets shower head, and in some cases hinges. Even some of the nicer MHs use awfully cheap parts for those. I think it likely I would also upgrade the water pump on any unit.

I do not see the need for super modern navigation (I can use my phone) but I do like the MHs with really nice cockpits with a wrap around style dash. We can also happily do without: a fake fireplace, built in safe, wine cooler or wine rack,

Paint is irrelevant as long as not gaudy. The better exterior panels that do not delaminate are a big plus. Also any better interior panel than Masonite (but I do not thing there is anysuchofathing).

If we went this way, we would probably get one soonish and then spend several years using it while we upgrade it.

It seems like this would get us a customized unit at a lower price and with the costs spread out over time. Am I wrong in this?

Thanks.
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Old 06-20-2018, 01:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
This thread seems to align with something we were told recently.

We are looking at both Motorhomes and 5th wheels for possible full time after retiring and selling our house. Recently at a dealer, the salesman told us the best MH we could possibly get is a 2001 - 2006 Monaco and partially gut it and upgrade it with some of the modern conveniences. He said it would be much cheaper and we would end up with a way better Rig than buying any other brand that is maybe 4-5 years old. He said if he had a couple of hundred thousand to work with that is what he would do without question. (He whispered this as that dealership does not even carry Monaco)

Since then two other people independently made the same suggestion.

We would want one in the 40 - 45' range. Bath and a half. Capable of pulling a 10,000 - 15,000 pound trailer anywhere. Seems like any other wants could be addressed with money.

I would like to have a Detroit Series 60 just for nostalgic reasons (my Dad spent much of his career helping design and improve that engine). However that is not as important as quality.

So here are my questions:

1. Do you agree with Mr. Salesman? I halfway agree with him. Monaco makes a great coach and chassis but I think it would be a stretch to say the best. When I think of the best that is obviously subjective. Best based on what information or what data? In my mind a Prevost conversion or Newell would be the best but that's just in my head because I want one.

2. Why Monaco specifically - he said that was the absolute best option for buying and upgrading. Why is that? What makes Monaco better than other options (Newhall for example?). Actually it's Newell, not Newhall but I would NOT put a Monaco in the category of a Newell. Monaco built a fine coach and I love the Roadmaster chassis but again, best is very subjective.

3. If you agree - suggestions for models to look at? If you want the Detroit engine then you will be looking at either an Executive, Signature or Navigator in the 2001-2008 year range and it had to be ordered with such as that was not the standard engine.

4. What should we watch out for if we go this way (lost of that is covered above - any added issues?) If the previous owner has records on the coach that is a big advantage, otherwise plan on spending some money to zero out the coach or at least freshen up the wearable items. Granted my idea of zeroing out a coach is probably overkill and more than likely far from what others envision when they think of freshening up wearable components.

Look more at condition and the obvious stuff on coaches such as water intrusion being the biggest concern. Most other deficiencies can be dealt with but water intrusion is an RV killer. On Monaco/HR coaches look at the bottom corners of the slide floors for delamination issues. This was a concern and can be address to some degree.

I've done a couple of youtube videos on the Guardian Plates from Talin Manufacturing that address this issue.


5. I was convinced Spartan frames are the best for durability and ride both. True? What frame did Monaco use? Spartan makes a fine chassis as did Roadmaster (Monaco's chassis). Spartan chassis will have IFS whereas the Roadmaster is a solid front axle with dual outboard mounted airbags. The Roadmaster will give a bit "firmer" ride vs. the IFS which will be a bit "softer". This comes down to owner preference on ride and handling as both have their place. Personally I prefer a bit more firm for handling vs. smooth and soft ride, again owner/driver preference.

5. Are there any upgrades that are not doable that you know of? Your mind and wallet are about your only limitations that I can think of.

Our wish list would include: Aquahot, double paned windows, 3" walls with real insulation; heated basement/tanks; 100 gallons plus fresh and grey water, solar panels; 10k (or larger) generator); king or queen size walk around bed; reasonable ground clearance; 3 strong ac units; No jackknife sofa - I want a straight sofa that is long enough to lay down on; One piece possibly tiled sizable shower (especially height). Ceramic, flush toilets (not plug in a hole type); incredibly wonderful driver and passenger seats that swivel and become part of te living area, laundry; not critical, but a table that cna be expanded to seat four or six would be awesome pass through large storage section int he basement; side radiator that is reasonably easy to access; water filter system; cabinetry and furniture that does not scream you are in a camper; lots of weigh capability. Not sure about a dishwasher - I dislike the Fisher and Payklel dish drawers but maybe if there is a different kind that actually works and does not break constantly. Also we woudl want deep kitchen sink(s), many units have absurd shallow ones. From what I have seen, we would likely replace all the cabinet knobs and handles, faucets shower head, and in some cases hinges. Even some of the nicer MHs use awfully cheap parts for those. I think it likely I would also upgrade the water pump on any unit.

I do not see the need for super modern navigation (I can use my phone) but I do like the MHs with really nice cockpits with a wrap around style dash. We can also happily do without: a fake fireplace, built in safe, wine cooler or wine rack,

Paint is irrelevant as long as not gaudy. The better exterior panels that do not delaminate are a big plus. Also any better interior panel than Masonite (but I do not thing there is anysuchofathing).

If we went this way, we would probably get one soonish and then spend several years using it while we upgrade it.

It seems like this would get us a customized unit at a lower price and with the costs spread out over time. Am I wrong in this?

Thanks.
Please see my responses in RED above. Granted this is not gospel but my opinions and I am certain others will have theirs.

That being said, I don't think you need to purchase a 2001-2006 (as you stated) and gut it to get what you want. Many Monaco (and others) in that year range are very nice and have a LOT of life left in them as well as have high end amenities already.

All things being equal, our 2003 Dynasty with 120k miles on it is as good if not better than the day it rolled off of Monaco's assembly line and it has had minimal alterations to the interior as far as remodeling. About all I have done interior wise is new upholstery this past winter and I installed a residential refrigerator. Other than that I could easily full-time in our Dynasty. It does have the Onan 10kW genset which was on my "must have" list when we were looking as well as triple roof A/C units and Aqua-Hot. I would have liked to have had the Detroit engine (1st choice) or the Cummins ISM (second choice) but the little ISL has performed flawlessly even towing my 13k pounds of enclosed trailer around most of the Western U.S. and parts of Canada.

Good luck in your search as there are a lot of coaches out there that have a lot of miles remaining in them but just need a good owner to take care of them.

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Old 06-20-2018, 01:43 PM   #63
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I addition to above response for clarification, the coaches I suggested above would be on the Roadmaster S-Series chassis. This is their tag-axle semi-monocoque chassis.

Monaco also produced very well built coaches on their Roadmaster RR8R and RR8S chassis that were the non-tag axle coach and would also be a very nice quality coach. The difference is going to be a side radiator vs. a rear radiator so that comes down to the model you are looking at.

I know several people full-timing in Camelot's and Windsor's built on the chassis I just mentioned and they perform perfectly for their owners.

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Old 06-20-2018, 02:05 PM   #64
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This is our first Class A, we purchased a 2001 Monaco Executive with 500hp Cummings. We are very pleased. Did an 8500 mile trip about 3 weeks after purchase and only mishap was one lost hubcap. Very dependable, well equipped and didn't break the bank. Tag axle I found to be a very desired option, steady ride even in high winds.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:07 PM   #65
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Coldjensens , Mike has done an excellent job answering your questions.

Monaco built their own Roadmaster chassis and each one was specifically designed for the coach it was built for so they were able to use Cummins, Detroit, and Caterpillar engines.

If you want a Detroit 60 engine, look for a 2004-2008 Monaco Signature or Monaco Executive, Holiday Rambler Navigator (close cousin to the Executive), or Beaver Marquis (close cousin to the Signature). When we were shopping I found several Navigators with the Detroit 60 option. The Cummins ISM 500hp was standard (great engine) and the Detroit 60 was a $20k+ upgrade. Also available was the big Cummins ISX.
All of these high end Monaco coaches will have a ceramic toilet, nice Villa International seats and furniture, and solid wood cabinets.

If you want to see the most beautiful hardwood interior ever in a motor home, look at a Beaver Marquis. They are second to none.

There are several other nice coaches out there. I would look at Newmar Essex and King Aire; American Eagle and Heritage; Country Coach Intrigue, Magna, and Affinity (Affinity is the highest in the lineup); Foretravel (very nice coaches); Tiffen Allegro Bus, Phaeton and Zepher; Travel Supreme Select (all electric); and Entegra (Travel Supreme became Entegra in 2008).

Like Mike said, the Newell and Prevost conversions are in another league with original MSRP well over $1 million. These are awesome coaches but I dislike the predominantly white interiors and I'm not a big fan of the Volvo engine in the Prevost.

Couches, beds, and TV's are easy to update but adding Aqua Hot to a coach would not be economical.

Dishwasher will take away from your inside storage.


Start by educating yourself on this forum and reviewing the original brochures. Legacy Monaco brochures can be downloaded here:
https://www.monacocoach.com/luxury-rv-brochures

Then start checking the classified section of this forum, RVTrader.com, and RVT.com. Search nationwide not just local.
Best of luck!
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:44 PM   #66
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Thank you both.]

I have been looking at various forums websites, for sale RVs and 5th wheels and visiting some dealers for a few months. There seems to be a lot of advantage pointing towards the 2006 and earlier diesels.

I just wanted a Series 60 because that is Dad's engine. Are they actually better than the cat or cummins? Dad was actually surprised they are still in use.

Looked at the marquis - wow. I love birds eye maple. Is it real or synthetic?

Also the Maruis's I saw did not have those stupid (IMO) jackknife couches - hooray. Another advantage of many of the used ones is they already have a lot of the things I would want to add to a new RV. (Solar, upgraded water pump, satellite antennae, and cell extender, wahser/dryer, etc. Frankly I would like to find one being sold fully outfitted. Our camping gear is getting pretty ratty (chairs, tables, outdoor rug, instant canopy, etc.) and many FSBO rvs are sold with all the stuff in them. Some of it is really nice and in great shape. I could just give away anything I did not want, but it would save a lot of shopping and some money (I mostly hate shopping).

There are very few Beaver Marquis for sale that I could find. Maybe people tend to keep them, or there just weren’t very many made. Seems to be a considerable difference between 2003 and 2006 models.

BTW I meant Newmar for comparison not Newell (sorry). Newell’s would have to be 50 years old to depreciate into the range I would like to find an RV (About $150,000 - $200,000). We could go to $300,000 but that would eat into my plan of also buying my dream car (Jensen Interceptor Convertible) and an enclosed trailer to tow it behind the RV. We looked at an actual Prevost and it was not impressive compared to say the Entegra Anthem. Yes, it was better, but not $1 million better. I will admit it was very pretty on the outside. Still, I do not get it. Why such a massive price difference?

Looking online is somewhat limited but the Monaco and especially the Beaver Marquis seem to be somewhat nicer than the Entegra, do they have a bath and a half floorplan for Monaco or Beaver? My wife really wants a bath and a half.

We are going to go to a show in Indiana in August, but they probably will not have 2006 models we can look at.

We had intended to look for 2008 - 2014 but it appears 2006 and earlier are better due to the emissions garbage.

I found an American Coach in the same price range. It seemed pretty nice. - how do they compare?

The salesman who told us to get a Monaco was showing us an Entegra Anthem which I liked a lot, but then found out it is a Thor company. Online and in person I have been repeatedly warned away form anything connected with Thor. Sales guy said the older Monaco's were a much better quality for the dollar buy than Entegra.
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Old 06-20-2018, 03:44 PM   #67
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Coldjensens, just to expand on a couple of your comments, the biggest difference with a Prevost coach is the chassis itself. It is marketed as a million mile chassis for a reason. The cost of a bare chassis is upwards of $750k before the converter even touches it, that is where the $2M plus prices come into play.

Secondly if you have ever had the chance to work on a Prevost chassis vs. one of our plastic coaches, there is a HUGE difference. I would rather work on a Prevost any day of the week and twice on Sunday compared to my Dynasty. They actually build them to accommodate engine and chassis work. The downside to a Prevost chassis is that it is way overkill for most RV'ers as they rarely see the miles that the average RV owner will put on them.

As for the wood work of a Beaver I can attest to that. Our Dynasty has a very nice and well built interior but nothing compared to old Beaver that we had previously. The Marquis, as well as the Patriot Thunder, had more of a gloss coated wood with Burl insets and they are very, very nice cabinets. I believe it was 2003 and up that started using the Roadmaster chassis after Monaco bought out Beaver around 2001. Prior to the Roadmaster chassis, Beaver used a Magnum chassis which was also a well built chassis but the number of Beaver coaches were no where near as prevalent as Monaco so that is why you don't see as many on the road or for sale.

Also like Vito mentioned, don't count out Country Coach as the Magna and Affinity were also built on a semi-monocoque chassis. The Country Coach's were built on the Dynomax chassis which was their in-house chassis and utilized and IFS suspension vs. a solid front axle.

I can't speak much for the Entegra and Newmar's as I have much less experience with them. I am familiar with the older Travel Supremes that I think were also a great coach and may be worth considering.

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Old 06-20-2018, 04:49 PM   #68
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My wife also wanted 1 1/2 bath until she walked through one. She suddenly realized that the extra room has to come at the expense of something else and that was the kitchen counter. The counter was very short and the drawers were only 1/2 width.

Travel Supreme built high quality class A coaches from 1999 until the industry crashed in 2008. They closed the doors in Jan 2008 and eventually sold the company to Jayco. Jayco changed the name to Entegra Coach and also built quality coaches until 2016 when Thor purchased Jayco. So far, Thor has not degraded the Entegra line and the current Entegra coaches are still very nice and offer a lot of bang for the buck. You can compare a new Entegra Cornerstone to a high end Newmar.

Go look at a Travel Supreme Select from 2005-2009 (2004 and earlier have an older body style but are still nice). They are all electric coaches built on a Spartan Mountain Master chassis. Also look at Travel Supreme Select Limited coaches. The Select Limited is a notch up with the larger Cummins ISX vs the ISM in the Select. Both have very nice hand built wood cabinets and marble counter tops and many will have a fireplace.

Also look at Foretravel. They are handbuilt in TX and still in business today.

Like Mike said, Country Coach also built very nice coaches in Oregon (just down the road from Monaco) until they closed the doors in 2008. Winnebego purchased Country Coach and is keeping the name alive. The only thing I don't care for is Country Coach used Cat C13 and C15 engines in most of the higher end coaches before 2008 (these are also in many Beaver coaches). These are great powerful engines, but tend to be a little thirsty. However, one of the very nicest coaches I've ever seen was a Country Coach Lexa. We almost purchased it until I checked the on-board computer. Lifetime average mpg was 4.6.

Probably lots more nice models out there that I have failed to remember.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:25 PM   #69
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After reading all the responses, I am a bit confused. My 2008 Dynasty Yorkshire IV has been a great coach. The engine and chasis was built in 2007. At 75K miles had to replace the EGR valve. Recently replaced the inverter (my mistake), but would certainly put it up against most of the newer models. Very solid with great ride.
PPL had a 2008 DYIV with most of the requirements listed above.
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:27 PM   #70
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Russ, I did not mean to confuse anyone. I was just trying to open up Coldjensens option.

Monaco filed Chapter 11 in Mar 2009. This was the middle of the 2010 model year. A 2008 Dynasty is an absolutely great coach and a rare find. Monaco was smart in purchasing a large number of pre DPF/DEF diesel engines in late 2006 and installed them in coaches until they closed. These are great coaches!
Even the 2009-2010 coaches built by Monaco are great finds, but there are less of them as they cut back production.
After Navistar took over they started pushing their own engines and some of these have been troublesome.

My wife and I discussed that our ideal coach would be a 2007-2010 Signature Chateau.
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