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DocUSAF · 09-18-2009, 08:06 AM

Dick you're kidding right. Bond....what bond...you mean our happy disfunctional family ... We're all stuck like chuck.. some are loyal die-hards for so many different reason's that trying to list 'em would be nuts....I'll let 'em speak for themselves individually, but some owners are just plain so upside-down in their coaches, it's hard to realistically see anything else ahead, so we need this RV LLC Titanic to keep floating as long as possible....on smooth waters..and rallies help us come together, laugh and defend the tribe.
Replacement RV Parts and finding a real roadmaster chassis tech's will be future... Whom-ever owns the monaco brand factory parts, own the keys, whom-ever has the keys drives the bus. So, hold on it's gonna get a bit bumpy as we all forge ahead!...I'm focused along with my wallett on a tag axle with IFS.... so, let 'er buck...

Robin_M · 09-18-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Gramps-

Monaco RV has plenty of regard for any Motorhome bought from them. They don't want the legal and financial obligation to make warranty repairs for Monoco Coach corporation, a company that no longer exists. I get the feeling that if Navistar had bought Monaco's assets and named the new company anything else but Monaco most naysayers would not care a bit what they do or don't do. I just want them Navistar/Workhorse/Monaco RV LLC to stay in business so they can provide parts and service. Paying for that is better than not getting it at all.

Gramps,

Exactly. The whole thing is no more complicated than that.

Jim Stewart · 09-18-2009, 09:07 AM

I for one am astounded that anyone could actually say and/or believe, that Monaco Coach Corporation no longer exists, the only change that happened was the paper name change, it is one-in-the-same company.

I suppose that if Bernie Madoff changed his name, he would be a better person? A Madoff by any other name is still a Madoff!

itdave · 09-18-2009, 10:06 AM

Monaco is no different that GM, Chrysler and the financial companies in those cases a new company was formed that took all the good stuff and left the bond holders, stock owners and vendors holding the bag. At least in the case of Monaco no one stuck it to the American Tax payer.

moisheh · 09-18-2009, 10:24 AM

itdave:

You are partially correct. The big difference is that GM and Chrysler still honor the warranties on 5 year old vehicles. The parts prices have not changed and the dealers did not get stiffed. Can anyone tell me that in the history of bankruptcies of high priced consumer goods that this ever happened before: A company goes into Chapter 11, they do not pay their bills, another company with strong ties to the bankrupt company buys the assets for a song and then appoints the old CEO to run the new venture making the same product with the same name in the same plant and does not honor any warranties or recalls. This is not a $50 stroller or a $100 piece of electronics. The judge who approved the sale should be reprimanded. Personally I think his suppoort for the deal is suspect!

BUT: I will support the new venture as long as they support existing owners. The telehone support with shorter hours is still excellent!

Robin_M · 09-18-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Stewart

I suppose that if Bernie Madoff changed his name, he would be a better person? A Madoff by any other name is still a Ma doff!

Jim,

Bad analogy, in my opinion. Aside from the Custom Chassis connection, and Dan Ustian sitting on the Monaco board for the six months prior to the Chapter 11 filing, Navistar had no extensive back ground in the motor home industry. Yes there is Workhorse, but that venture was far more along the lines of what Navistar already does, than Monaco Coach Corp.

What did you expect them to do?.. Fire all the managers and immediately start over with a new inexperienced top management team in the middle of the most down market they have ever had? Or would you have them bring in all their own people, and risk middle management loyalty, when they have so many other fires to extinguish during these economic times? Either direction would have been a huge mistake, for a number of reasons. It's easy to blame Toolson for the demise of Monaco Coach Corp, but despite how some of us may feel about his past management decisions, we all know the real reasons for the ultimate failure go far beyond the man himself.

But I'll make a bet with you... by the end of 2010, or sooner, Kay Toolson and John Napute will both be history with Monaco. (Napute, probably much sooner.)

DocUSAF · 09-18-2009, 11:02 AM

Robin, ...I'll take some of that bet....for sure... in fact, you think we could have a campfire farewell party just after they leave...I got some cake mix here somewhere!.. I bet he's gone way before that...maybe next 180 days....OK so it wasn't his fault, someone has to be the goat!... I'm sure we'll get a huge golden parachute.. he's the CEO of a fomer one billion dollar corp...

Jim Stewart · 09-18-2009, 11:09 AM

Robin,

I think it was the perfect analogy. Ustian sat on the Board of Monaco Coach since 2003, 6 years before the bankruptcy! I have no problem or am I looking to blame anyone for the down market and Monaco's demise. I have a major problem of how the demise was orchestrated and the outcome!

There is no doubt that Monaco was in trouble and was underwater. Navistar could have acquired the company before the bankruptcy but did not. Why would they, they had Monaco management and their own CEO to advise them. They took it Chapter 7 and Navistar got a deal.

In the Madoff scandal, it will come out that he was not alone in his actions. You can bet that Monaco was not alone in the strategy to BK the company and let Navistar buy the assets for a song! It was the perfect storm. My sole problem is that they benefited and most others get shafted. This shows great, great, great, great lack of character.

Robin_M · 09-18-2009, 11:22 AM

Jim,

I do see your point. However, I think that "bad character" had a great deal more to do with things in the Madoff case than in the Monaco case. ...even beyond the fact that what Madoff did was illeagal and what Navistar did was not.

---------

Doc, I'd like to join you at that campfire fairwell party.

itdave · 09-18-2009, 02:18 PM

Moisheh,
Very good points the only thing I would mention is that I think the Federal Government backed the Warranties for at least GM (I think that is what I heard). If you want to look to bankruptcies that screwed a lot of people just take a look at the airlines. Most employees lost there retirements and investments but were still working for the same company when they emerged from bankruptcy. I think any bankruptcy hurts a lot of people but I chose to support a company who is going to try to give some support to owners of earlier coaches and wants to try to rebuild an industry and lifestyle.

Theberrys · 09-19-2009, 09:47 AM

Thanks for the insight and opinions. I still have Monaco at the bottom of my list to buy from, for the same reasons. The product looks great and sounds like it built pretty well (for a Motor Home), sorry have to qualify that statement.

I still think the best part of owning a Monaco is the owners,

First the controller, then the rest of the upper management. They won't risk any of the Good-Ol Boys from the new company. I went through 5 companys in a 34 year job and the pattern was always the same. Talk about the good fit and it's the people we want Bla Bla Bla. By the time they sell it again the people have frogotten the promises made. It's not easy on the workers, at least the upper management knows whats comming. Shortley after they are let go they have new jobs. You can bet there working on it right now, possibly harder than there duties at Monaco.

DICK

chuckbraden · 09-21-2009, 05:55 PM

I love reading the replies. Even when I am not interested in the topic, I read the replies. It makes me feel better when I know I am not the only one to get screwed by Monaco, GM, and the IRS.
Chuck

H. Miller · 09-22-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckbraden

I love reading the replies. Even when I am not interested in the topicChuck

Please note the "topic" was the rally in Tucson (before hijack)

Drifter · 09-22-2009, 07:02 AM

Mr. Miller, Please note, that if you didn't want anybody to talk about the rally and all things pertaining to the subject you should have said so. I don't think it's Hijacking.

I believe that this rally is a slap in the face to all Monaco owners, and a test to see what numbers will follow the old management with there new magic cape. This may sound a bit bitchy, but that's who I am these days.