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Old 12-02-2019, 04:32 PM   #15
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FWIW, the Echo Charger is 'hurricane tested'.

I had one in my Endeavor when hurricane Irma flooded it, with storm surge reaching several inches above the Echo Charger. I pulled it off, dried it out and it's now working perfectly in my Camelot.


Maybe I should ask for an endorsement from Xantrex
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:45 PM   #16
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Your getting a bunch of bad info.

You don't need a trik l start or echo charger to fix your MH. The BIRD system will handle it. That's how the MH was built. The first letter of the BIRD is for Bi-directional. That means charging either battery from either charging source.

People who don't understand the BIRD just add things to work around it when it stops working.

If the Big Boy is warm and or hummimg, that DOES NOT mean its working. It only means the hold in coil is electricly actavated. The high current contacts may not be carrying the charge current thru it. A common problem.

Now to testing. Get a cheap volt meter, $10 from any auto parts store.

Plug in the shore cord and check house battery voltage. If its above 13.4 volts that's normal. If your not seeing 13.4 volts, your BIRD will not charge the chassis battery.

In many cases, the BTS or battery temp sensor may be bad. That controls the inverter/charger float voltage. Unplugging them is a way to test them. Another way is thru the control panel to see what its telling the inverter/charger.They cost $20

Now check the chassis battery, it too should be 13.4 volts. If not, the big boy solenoid may or may not be getting power. If its warm, its getting power. You can also check for voltage on the 2 small terminals.

If its getting voltage, check the large terminals, one at a time, putting the other meter probe to ground. Both large terminals should read the same. If not, replace it or open it up and clean the contacts.

Once all of that is working, your alternator should now charge your chassis batteries at first and then also charge your house batteries. There is no danger of shorting out your alternator, its designed to charge all of the batteries.

Another reason you want the BIRD system working, is that the big boy solenoid also serves double duty as a boost or auxiliary start control. A handy thing when one or the other battery banks is to low to start what it needs to start.
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:30 PM   #17
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Thanks Twinboat for the detail. I was under the understanding that many Monacoís did not charge the chassis batteries while on shore power and mine never did. I will do the checks though mention. I do know my Big Boy is functioning properly. Iím going to do the checks you mention tomorrow. Although my trick-l-start works great I would prefer to use the system as designed if indeed it is supposed to charge the chassis also.

Thanks
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Old 12-02-2019, 05:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chargerman View Post
Thanks Twinboat for the detail. I was under the understanding that many Monacoís did not charge the chassis batteries while on shore power and mine never did. I will do the checks though mention. I do know my Big Boy is functioning properly. Iím going to do the checks you mention tomorrow. Although my trick-l-start works great I would prefer to use the system as designed if indeed it is supposed to charge the chassis also.

Thanks
I was surprised your 06' Executive didn't come from the factory with a B.I.R.D system.
Now I see you do have one.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:33 PM   #19
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I'm curious though if the Camelot or the Sceptor came with a BIRD. I thought only the higher end coaches (dynasty and up) did come with them, however.
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:36 PM   #20
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Bill, by '08 they did.

Don't know about earlier models.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:08 PM   #21
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Bill, by '08 they did.

Don't know about earlier models.
thanks Ben. Interesting.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:33 PM   #22
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Twinboat, are you saying all of us guys who purchased the echo charger and comparable units did not need to purchase them, this is the first time I heard this, if so, wish we would have figured this out earlier.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:17 AM   #23
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My chassis batteries were not getting charged while plugged in to shore power in 2015. I had just bought my coach and didn't understand how everything worked. I called Monaco which use to have a tech support line. I asked the tech if he thought my big boy would be the issue and he told me he didn't think so because they don't very often cause problems. He asked me if it was warm and it was so he said he suspected a bad ground somewhere.
Shortly after I hung up the phone my brother called me and asked what I was up to. I told him what was going on and explained the system to him. He said to check across the 2 large lugs on the big boy and if there was much voltage there that the big boy was not working correctly and needed cleaned up inside or replaced. There was voltage across the lugs so I took it apart, cleaned the contacts inside and it has worked perfectly ever since. Now for the funny part, my brother doesn't even own a motorhome but does understand electrical issues more than most. Over 40 years designing electronic circuits for a living.
Test your big boy with a volt meter. It surely isn't too cold out to do that. If there is much voltage (like 1 volt or more) across those large lugs it needs cleaned. Check the easy stuff first. Good luck.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:45 AM   #24
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Twinboat, are you saying all of us guys who purchased the echo charger and comparable units did not need to purchase them, this is the first time I heard this, if so, wish we would have figured this out earlier.
In not saying all of you, but from 2006 and beyond, most diesel pushers should have had bi-directional charging. It was becoming common in gas MHs.

Many older DPs used a chassis battery maintainer along side a battery isolator. By about 2000, they were being replaced with BIRDs or other named proprietary, bi-directional charging devices.
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:57 AM   #25
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With your 2009 Camelot, I'm assuming you have the 'Medallion Message Center' (with the separate 10-button select panel). I ask because it's kinda tough at times to determine exactly what is on each coach - I have an '08 Camelot with the Medallion Center yet Happycarz also has an '08 but without it .
Anyways, assuming you do have the Medallion Center, you should have a display on the readout panel that indicates LOW/HIGH BATTERY. I've not had mine come on, except when first turning the key to start, but I'd assume it would warn you if you're losing battery charge.

BTW, x2 on the Echo Charger!
Thanks for pointing this out - I do have the LCD and it should display Chassis Battery voltage. I'll check this out tomorrow when the outside temp is supposed to get above 34 degrees. Maybe this is what Monaco wanted the driver to use in loo of a voltmeter? If so - if the chassis battery is bad I wonder if the display will show the alternator charging - or just the battery voltage? I'll update everyone when I get the chance to test.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:44 AM   #26
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Your getting a bunch of bad info.
Thanks TwinBoat - lots of very useful information! Right now to keep the chassis batteries charged I have a battery tender connected to my house (right next to my 50 amp shore line connection). I also have the chassis batteries disconnected via the on/off switch located in the right-rear curbside battery bay so my battery tender doesn't cause any issues with the rest of the coach electronics.

I'm going to fully diagnose the problem before taking any action to fix. The more I know the better informed I'll be. The information about the echo and trik-l-start are good "to knows" just in case I. Right now all information is helpful!

Now if I can get the weather to warm up some so I can work outside would be helpful
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Old 12-03-2019, 05:14 PM   #27
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Ok. So I did some voltage checks today and I must confess to what I call a "stupid Steve moment". When on shore power all of my batteries are showing 13.3 volts. Took the coach off shore power and let the batteries rest for a couple hours and checked the batteries again. All batteries displayed 12.6 volts. Chassis and house. Plugged the coach back in and checked again. 14.3 on all batteries. This higher voltage was just after plugging in and the charger hadn't settled in yet. I pulled off the Trick-L-Start and will use it on one of the collector cars

So now my excuse 😳

A short time after I first purchased the coach 5 years ago I found that the chassis batteries were not being charged when on shore power. Not understanding the system and hearing from others that it was common that the chassis batteries were only charged by the alternator I added the Trick-L-Start to assure that my chassis batteries were always properly charged. Soon thereafter I found that depressing the battery boost button did not provide additional power. I found that the Big Boy was gummed up with dried out dielectric grease and not functioning. After a thorough internal cleaning it was functioning correctly. With my lack of understanding of the BIRD system I took it at face value that the chassis batteries were not charged by it. Can't believe I never checked voltages

Thanks so much Twinboat for jumping in and providing the correct info for us all!!

Just one more reason why I love IRV2 and the good folks here.
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RustyTools View Post
With your 2009 Camelot, I'm assuming you have the 'Medallion Message Center' (with the separate 10-button select panel). I ask because it's kinda tough at times to determine exactly what is on each coach - I have an '08 Camelot with the Medallion Center yet Happycarz also has an '08 but without it .
Anyways, assuming you do have the Medallion Center, you should have a display on the readout panel that indicates LOW/HIGH BATTERY. I've not had mine come on, except when first turning the key to start, but I'd assume it would warn you if you're losing battery charge.

BTW, x2 on the Echo Charger!
Here is the information on the "Medallion Messaage Center".

Twinboat is correct on the operation and there is a ton of previous files and threads on the BIRD. As suggested, lots of people do a work around because they simply do not understand or take the time to make the existing system work.

The BIRD systems are robust but do fail and knowing how your year and model device is built is really critical.

They can be intermittent and drive you crazy trying to diagnose them. The contacts may work and then of course, not work all while you are trying to learn how they work. My system has a couple of minute delay when combining the batteries and that made a monkey out of me when we bought the coach new and there simply was not information available to diagnose or simply learn the system.

We have an 08 Endeavor. The BIRD consists of a large solenoid/relay in the battery compartment driven by a small circuit board attached to a large circuit board below the driver inside the outside compartment.

Mine does combine the battery banks when any charging voltage rises to a certain point but only after the delay as mentioned. The exception is when the generator is running AND the alternator is running at the same time. The system is not engaged under those conditons. Keeps the two sources from arguing with each other so to speak.

Oh yeah, if I remember correctly you press the "main" button for the voltage to show on the display.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf message_center_medallion.pdf (481.0 KB, 3 views)
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